Apple
Desk Jockey
"Speaking of love, Apple..."
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Post by Apple on Sept 25, 2011 11:39:24 GMT -8
That stock footage was in a movie that I remember seeing on Encore Western. John Wayne and Henry Fonda, as I recall, and Shirley Temple...I am fairly certain of the stars, can't remember the title though.
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Post by artiesniecewannabe on Sept 25, 2011 11:52:21 GMT -8
Fort Apache?
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Post by California gal on Sept 25, 2011 12:21:07 GMT -8
They used stock footage fairly frequently in the episodes. I can think of these:
In Surreal McCoy when Artie is galloping to town to get help. That ain't him or even his double on that horse.
In Cut-throats when Artie and Sally are heading for the fort... to get help. You can see that the male rider has a pony tail and the woman is wearing a cloak. Tyrone Power and Maureen O'Hara?
In Cadre, when they show the caravan supposedly carrying President Grant. All those covered wagons wildly driving across the rough terrain. I don't think they would be conveying the president in that manner!
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Apple
Desk Jockey
"Speaking of love, Apple..."
Posts: 2,202
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Post by Apple on Sept 25, 2011 15:12:58 GMT -8
The beginning of Skulls, the stock footage of the foxhunt is from Hitchcock's "Marnie".
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Post by Double Take on Sept 25, 2011 15:42:11 GMT -8
The beginning of Skulls, the stock footage of the foxhunt is from Hitchcock's "Marnie". I wondered where the fox hunt came from. Don't forget "the Minnow" scene in Bleak Island.
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Post by snish on Sept 26, 2011 5:22:49 GMT -8
The beginning of Skulls, the stock footage of the foxhunt is from Hitchcock's "Marnie". I wondered where the fox hunt came from. Don't forget "the Minnow" scene in Bleak Island. That's one of my favorites.
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Silver
Book Worm
I love the smell of canon fire in the morning!
Posts: 625
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Post by Silver on Sept 26, 2011 8:38:13 GMT -8
Actually, Niecie, I've often wondered about that, too. Maybe he just didn't want to continue to wear the disreputable outfit of the whiskey merchant, and for once didn't have anything with him to change into, so they gave him a calvary uniform. Having been an officer during the war, he may well have still had the right to the uniform, even if he was not active duty. Can anybody tell if that is, in fact, a Captain's uniform?
Okay, I didn't read the other replies before I replied. But now I really do wonder if that is a Captain insignia?
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Post by artiesniecewannabe on Sept 28, 2011 11:32:26 GMT -8
I'm watching The Night that Terror Stalked the Town -- at the beginning during the opening credits as James wakes up in the carriage, listen to the music: part of the main theme is played on harpsichord, a clue to the fact that this is a Dr Loveless episode (Antoinette plays harpsichord). A minute or so later, as Jim is searching the town and gets near the saloon, listen to the honky-tonk piano: it's playing the song that Dr Loveless and Antoinette later sing as a duet (I Know Where I'm Going).
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Apple
Desk Jockey
"Speaking of love, Apple..."
Posts: 2,202
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Post by Apple on Sept 29, 2011 5:04:02 GMT -8
Wow! I didn't realize that. Im going to pull out season one tonight.
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Post by artiesniecewannabe on Sept 29, 2011 6:25:57 GMT -8
Btw, also in Terror is one of my favorite 'lines' from Artie. I put it in quotes because it's not exactly a line; it's the sound he makes at (fake) Jim when he's about to check his eye for something in it. Roughly, what Artie says is 'Vussshhh!'
'Cause that just really expresses his frustration with Jim at that moment.
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Post by artiesniecewannabe on Sept 29, 2011 10:28:31 GMT -8
Ok, also from Terror - Real Jim and Artie come running out with Marie after Jim turns on all the electric switches to blow up Loveless's lair. Fake Jim fires the cannon at them, so they take cover at a corner. Artie, the only one in his group with a gun, is kneeling and firing at Fake Jim; Real Jim is standing in front of and to the side of kneeling Artie. Real Jim gets an idea and runs off to ambush Fake Jim.
Ok, watch as Real Jim brushes by Artie to go do the action stuff -- he passes so close to kneeling Artie's head that his tushie knocks into Artie's hat and head!
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Post by artiesniecewannabe on Sept 30, 2011 6:47:44 GMT -8
Ok, also from Terror - Real Jim and Artie come running out with Marie after Jim turns on all the electric switches to blow up Loveless's lair. Fake Jim fires the cannon at them, so they take cover at a corner. Artie, the only one in his group with a gun, is kneeling and firing at Fake Jim; Real Jim is standing in front of and to the side of kneeling Artie. Real Jim gets an idea and runs off to ambush Fake Jim. Ok, watch as Real Jim brushes by Artie to go do the action stuff -- he passes so close to kneeling Artie's head that his tushie knocks into Artie's hat and head! Yup I noticed that too, Niecie, last time I watched it, I had to go back and watch in slow motion to see if I really saw that. I was LOL! You know that is the second time I've seen Jim run out in front of Artie while Artie is shooting his gun. I'm surprised that Artie hasn't blown Jim's head off yet. Take a look in TNOT Returning Dead. Jim & Artie are in the cave when the confederate nightrider attacks them. Jim jumps out in front of Artie while Artie is shooting his gun. Artie almost shoots Jim in the back of his head, but Artie still had his gun pointing off towards his right. Or in the case of Terror, Jim's tiny hiney. Speaking of which, we know Dr Loveless did plastic surgery on Janus's face; did he also do the surgery necessary to ensure that Janus would fit in Jim's tight pants? 'Cause the rear view was certainly the same... Niecie -- queen of overthinking!
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Silver
Book Worm
I love the smell of canon fire in the morning!
Posts: 625
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Post by Silver on Sept 30, 2011 8:16:47 GMT -8
Or in the case of Terror, Jim's tiny hiney. Speaking of which, we know Dr Loveless did plastic surgery on Janus's face; did he also do the surgery necessary to ensure that Janus would fit in Jim's tight pants? 'Cause the rear view was certainly the same... Niecie -- queen of overthinking! That's something I wouldn't want to think about or even try to picture in my mind. Loveless doing the surgery on Janus caboose. Bet he couldn't sit down for days!
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Post by artiesniecewannabe on Sept 30, 2011 9:19:49 GMT -8
Don't remember seeing Janus sitting... *whistling*
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Post by artiesniecewannabe on Oct 1, 2011 6:36:15 GMT -8
Actually, Niecie, I've often wondered about that, too. Maybe he just didn't want to continue to wear the disreputable outfit of the whiskey merchant, and for once didn't have anything with him to change into, so they gave him a calvary uniform. Having been an officer during the war, he may well have still had the right to the uniform, even if he was not active duty. Can anybody tell if that is, in fact, a Captain's uniform? Okay, I didn't read the other replies before I replied. But now I really do wonder if that is a Captain insignia? Silver, I was taking another look at Red-eyed Madmen, and in Act 2, a cavalry captain shows up on the train. Artie gets the drop on him, then recognizes him as a friend, Capt. Sandy O'Brien. I took a few caps of O'Brien and compared them with the outfit Artie wears at the end of Flaming Ghost. And I can't tell, frankly -- mostly from not knowing much about uniforms. The gloves, scarf, and belt look the same to me. Hats and pants are different colors. The main difference is in the shirt. O'Brien's looks more like a jacket: it extends down below the belt, has shiny buttons all the way down, with some sort of insignia on his shoulders. But Artie is wearing what looks like a regular shirt: tail tucked into his pants, just three plain dark buttons on the upper part of the shirt, with nothing on his shoulders. So I'm still like
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Post by California gal on Oct 1, 2011 6:51:18 GMT -8
It's the shoulder insignia you want to look at, not the uniform itself, although I'm not sure a noncom would wear the tunic that the captain has on. In Flaming Ghost Artie is wearing a private's blouse and has no shoulder insignia. Remember in TNOT Arrow when Artie is portraying the drunk and trying to get himself thrown in the guardhouse with Jim, he points to his shoulder insignia to (mistakenly) claim he has a higher rank than the colonel he's annoying. ;D The number of stars on the strap indicate rank.
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Post by artiesniecewannabe on Oct 1, 2011 7:00:37 GMT -8
Yeah, those pics are what I was looking at. Told you I didn't know anything about the uniforms; glad you did, Cal Gal! Thanks.
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Post by California gal on Oct 1, 2011 8:16:45 GMT -8
I don't know a lot about uniforms of the era, but I have done some research for my writing.
I suspect that if Artie changed clothes because he wanted to get out of the peddler's outfit, they just found something in the commissary--or someone's trunk--that fit, without regard to rank. We know he was a captain, just as Jim was. (Still no idea why the villain in Death-Maker refers to him as a major, unless it was a brevet rank.)
You know, in the script for Pistoleros, the fake lieutenant does not address Artie as Captain Gordon. Someone must have decided it was more appropriate for a soldier to address his former officer by rank--and gave Artie the same rank as Jim.
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Post by artiesniecewannabe on Oct 1, 2011 8:34:17 GMT -8
Watched Whirring Death yesterday. Been trying to Google to find out what Artie sang for Bessie while he was being the Italian baritone, but can't find the info. Anyone know?
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Post by California gal on Oct 1, 2011 14:29:50 GMT -8
Watched Whirring Death yesterday. Been trying to Google to find out what Artie sang for Bessie while he was being the Italian baritone, but can't find the info. Anyone know? I don't know a lot about opera, but it sure would help if he was a better singer! ;D I thought perhaps closed captioning would have the title or some of the words but all it says is "sings in Italian." It would take someone who knows opera better perhaps. Wonder if Nydiva on the other board follows opera as well as stage.
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Post by artiesniecewannabe on Oct 1, 2011 20:10:13 GMT -8
I did ask over there as well, but haven't checked for an answer yet.
Aww... I thought he was cute -- not to mention gutsy -- going for it to sing opera.
Edited to add: Come to think of it, anyone understand Italian to try to figure out what he's singing? I took a lot of French in high school (eons ago) and can read Spanish better than I can understand it spoken -- no Italian, but I might give it a shot.
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Apple
Desk Jockey
"Speaking of love, Apple..."
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Post by Apple on Oct 2, 2011 5:20:31 GMT -8
I hate that part, when Arte is singing to bessie.. I look away from the screen. I think that he is just singing nonsense, not from a real opera, because Bessie wouldn't know.
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Post by snish on Oct 2, 2011 7:23:16 GMT -8
It's definitely Italian, although I can only pick out a word or two. (probably "dolce," or sweet, and "l'amore," love.) At least we know it's Italian opera, not German, French, or English, so that narrows it down, huh? I have no idea what opera it comes from, but I'm sure RM would pick out something appropriate, even if the scriptwriters didn't.
He's pushing his voice to the bottom of his range and hamming it up, but there's some lovely tone in there. How I wish he had ever sung for real on that show. And I love his 2nd scene with Bessie when they're sitting on the stairs.
Bessie: ... and what do I get? Blown up with a lousy Italian tenor. Artie: Baritone. Bessie: Oh, stop that sweet talk.
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Apple
Desk Jockey
"Speaking of love, Apple..."
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Post by Apple on Oct 2, 2011 7:30:22 GMT -8
Hehehe Perhaps it is Bessie that really grates on my nerves in those scenes, making me cringe, and Arte's hamming just takes the blame. Yes, I wish he had sung on the show too. He did a little showboating himself, why not let him do it in disguise for real? ;D
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Post by artiesniecewannabe on Oct 2, 2011 8:14:34 GMT -8
I loved that exchange too, snish. When she said, 'lousy,' my reaction was 'Hey!' even though I had heard him sing the same as she had and knew he was getting out of his depth. And then that lean in, with him smiling and saying, 'Baritone." 'Bout had to scrape me up off the floor.
And the topper was her not even knowing what baritone meant! Loved the writing there!
For that matter, when Artie and Bessie break into the toy shop and he is still being Italian, seems to me he even holds his gun in character.
Later in the scene, when Bessie wants to shoot the locks off and he sends her off to watch the door, after he kisses her on the cheek and she goes out of the shot, the look on his face! Like he's thinking, 'Brains of a peanut.'
Ever notice how many throw-away singing scenes Artie has? And a lot of them, he's singing something by Stephen Foster -- I'm guessing because that was music that for sure was not anachronistic -- not that something being anachronistic tended to stop them from putting it in...
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Post by artiesniecewannabe on Oct 2, 2011 8:49:59 GMT -8
Listening to the operatic singing Artie does -- ok, he definitely says 'la luna' which would be 'the moon' -- also 'carina' -- looked that up, it means 'pretty.' It would help if I could a) spell in Italian and b) figure out where the words start and end. The first three syllables he sings seem to be 'Cheveste' but I don't know how or even if to separate them out.
Melisma's a bit ragged -- yeah, like I could do better!
Edited to add: And after the first three syllables, sounds like the next is 'siempre la dulse' -- always the sweet?
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Post by California gal on Oct 2, 2011 8:54:49 GMT -8
I thought the tune sounded a little like Pagliacci (sp?), but I looked up lyrics in Italian for that opera and nothing remotely resembled what he was singing. How many Italian operas are there? Thousands? Presumably it's a love song, but that doesn't narrow it down much!
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Post by artiesniecewannabe on Oct 2, 2011 9:40:03 GMT -8
Btw, I think what he says in Italian to Bessie on the stairs, just before he kisses her on the cheek, is, 'Viene, viene, tesoro, ' and works out to 'Come on, come on, treasure.'
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Post by snish on Oct 2, 2011 10:32:39 GMT -8
Listening to the operatic singing Artie does -- ok, he definitely says 'la luna' which would be 'the moon' -- also 'carina' -- looked that up, it means 'pretty.' It would help if I could a) spell in Italian and b) figure out where the words start and end. The first three syllables he sings seem to be 'Cheveste' but I don't know how or even if to separate them out. Melisma's a bit ragged -- yeah, like I could do better! Edited to add: And after the first three syllables, sounds like the next is 'siempre la dulse' -- always the sweet? As a choral singer, I blush to admit that I had to look up "melisma." But you're right, his changes are a bit ragged, yet he could produce lovely tone. That's why I'm convinced that he could sing beautifully if he tried. When actors are singing in character they often don't try to make it pretty. (Another example--RC singing "Buffalo Gals" in... I forget which episode. He started his career as a nightclub singer, I believe, so I'm sure he could do a lot better than he did in that instance. Apparently Jim isn't a singer.) You're right, "carina" is in there, and "che" something. And "piu" (a little). At least I think that's what I'm hearing.
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Post by artiesniecewannabe on Oct 2, 2011 11:18:40 GMT -8
I'm sure my spellings are more Spanish than Italian, which doesn't make it easy to look things up.
Whatever he's singing, when he's sitting with Bessie on the stairs, at the end of the scene when she asks for more sweet talk and he sings again -- I'm fairly certain it's the same song he was singing when he was first trying to get her attention, albeit shortened.
The line 'I know the way!' cracks me up.
Isn't it a pity Gilbert & Sullivan is anachronistic? Can't you imagine Artie singing the Major-General's song from Pirates of Penzance, or Ko-ko's 'I've Got a Little List'?
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