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Post by artiesniecewannabe on Feb 11, 2013 10:42:14 GMT -8
There are some things in our favorite show that just make no sense to me, elements in the story that make for good tv, but leave me wondering 'Why did they do that??'
The first example of this that comes to my mind is in Dr Loveless' first appearance, The Night the Wizard Shook the Earth. Toward the end of the show, after learning from Greta where Loveless has planted the explosives, Jim rushes there to defuse the bomb. He opens the door to the clock tower and BAM runs right into Voltaire. A lovely fight ensues, and then Jim runs up the stairs to deal with the bomb only to find Dr Loveless is there, sitting right alongside the two bottles of explosives. This leads to some wonderful dialogue and breath-stopping acrobatics on the parts of both West and Loveless; it's a marvelous scene, one of my favorites.
But... Why? Why was Loveless there? His aim was to force the state of California to turn over pretty much the lower half of the state to him, and he said he would blow up 5000 (or was it 50,000?) people at a time until the land was restored to him. But if he was sitting right there on top of the bomb, how would he acquire the land? When the bomb went off, he'd be the first one riding the crest of the explosion!
So... any other imponderables?
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Post by California gal on Feb 11, 2013 11:07:02 GMT -8
Murderous Spring (another Loveless saga) is one of the best and most popular episodes. But I always have to wonder about the fact that Kitten and Loveless get the room right next to Jim's. How did they know they would? And how did they so swiftly rig the 2-way mirror, not to mention a passageway through to Jim's room? That mirror would not have fit in the carpetbag! Especially with the good doctor in there too Good heavens! Did he ride the whole way in the coach in the bag? Fun to think about. Good topic, Niecie. I'm sure I can think of at least a couple other imponderables--if someone else doesn't mention them first!
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Post by artiesniecewannabe on Feb 11, 2013 11:46:41 GMT -8
One of the classics, of course, is where did the bazooka come from at the end of TNOT Big Blast.
And then there's this one that just occurred to me today: In TNOT Tartars, Artie disguises himself as the dead Russian. He and Jim are then nabbed and taken on a 'long' voyage, and when they get there, Artie still has the fake nose firmly stuck to his face. Huh?
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tyche
Wannabe
My Favourite Hero
Posts: 108
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Post by tyche on Feb 11, 2013 13:07:53 GMT -8
Actually the one that always confused me was TNOT Death Masks where Jim is wearing one set of clothes when he gets into the coach before he's drugged and another set when he gets out. Did someone change him? What makes it worse is that he accepts this as normal. I wouldn't. I'd be looking down at myself and thinking 'What the h***?' But yes, that always makes me wonder what happened there. Maybe someone could come up with a story - or maybe I could....
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Post by artiesniecewannabe on Feb 11, 2013 13:19:44 GMT -8
Yes, first Jim, and later Artie as well!
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Post by California gal on Feb 11, 2013 14:42:01 GMT -8
I'm sure that Jim's clothes were changed, and I think the reason was so that they could garb his impersonator the same way to shoot at Artie--now garbed and disguised as Emmet Stark. Artie would never shoot at someone he thought was Jim--wearing Jim's usual clothes--nor would Jim have shot at Artie. He thought he was seeing Stark, until he picked up the pistol.
Also I know Artie kind of looks down at his clothes, doesn't he? And I'm pretty sure Jim does too. He draws his gun and looks at his hat--i think. I haven't watched DM in 2-3 weeks so maybe it's time to do so.
Oh the torture we endure!
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rielle
Book Worm
yeah, THAT smile.
Posts: 497
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Post by rielle on Feb 11, 2013 18:21:10 GMT -8
I can come up with a number of these but the first one that pops up is why DIDN'T the Pistoleros kill Artie? I'm delighted of course that they didn't... but it doesn't really make sense within the framework albeit insane as it was, of their plot. They had his double in place, whose only duty was, apparently, to confirm fake-Murray to Jim. BUT that leads me to another question- wasn't it a whole lot of trouble for Gallardo and Co. to go to ... making the double-Artie, sending him up to Tehatchee... [wrong spelling] having him spend about five minutes with James and then BAM... now, that being said, I can't think Jim wouldn't have figured out the fake Artie in another thirty seconds or less... he's known Artie quite some time at this point... although the show NEVER says how long, as far as I remember. Good guess is since the War... but who knows? ah, another background story... later in the hour Sanchos says 'Artie' was killed to get Colonel Roper to come down to Mexico... BUT what guarantee was there that the real Roper would do that?
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Post by California gal on Feb 11, 2013 18:42:41 GMT -8
I tried to "explain" some of the imponderables in Pistoleros in my story, but I sure wish they had done it in the episode instead--and made it a 2-part story! Another thing that bothers me is in Headless Woman when Jim comes into the parlor car with his date and the container of the hybrid boll weevils. WHY? Why are those creatures still alive? Why take the chance they would escape and/or breed other monstrous boll weevils? Why did one of them (and I can't remember which one) as earlier, "what are we going to do with these?" Pour kerosene on them!
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Post by artiesniecewannabe on Feb 11, 2013 19:19:00 GMT -8
(Cal gal just hit 6000 posts.)
And then there's the Polynesian prince who doesn't look a bit Polynesian.
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Post by California gal on Feb 11, 2013 19:23:35 GMT -8
My goodness. I didn't even notice. I sure talk a lot don't I? I wonder if they hired Nick Adams for that role because he was RC's friend. He was much better suited to Vipers. Another Loveless episode was Whirring Death. Just after the explosion in the loan shark's office, Artie sees the "boy" toddling away carrying the carpetbag. He gives a double take and then takes off after him. I always assumed he recognized Loveless. Yet when he corners the "boy," he starts talking to him as if he had indeed chased a boy, cajoling him to come out. Before Voltaire "hurts" him.
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Post by artiesniecewannabe on Feb 11, 2013 19:52:07 GMT -8
Ah yes, Inferno comes to mind.
Now, I've said before that I don't understand why Artie is there in disguise razzing Jim in the opening scene. (It makes sense for purposes of exposition, but I don't see why he's there within the context of the story itself.) But there's something later I don't understand.
Walter Woolf King's character -- ah, Col Shear -- why does he pop up in Quemada and act all panicky and tell Jim he can back out? That just makes no sense to me. I guess the writers wanted someone there for the Bad Guys to kill, someone Jim knew who wasn't Artie or Lydia, so they had him show up. But why would he be all panicky?
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rielle
Book Worm
yeah, THAT smile.
Posts: 497
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Post by rielle on Feb 11, 2013 20:48:23 GMT -8
yes, I agree about Inferno... well, they were just getting started then...
STILL, there are some plot holes...
and we've discussed some of them already in some detail, so I'll only mention that aside from the W3 'bible' by Sue K, we don't have anything, and certainly nothing onscreen to say why Jim is 'introduced' to the President as 'the man we call Jim West'. ...
the thing about Colonel Shear... I think its a James Bond kind of shout-out... more knowledgeable Bond fans can tell us for sure... didn't some superior officer type usually show up to tell Bond he could cut his losses if he wants to?
Also, about the late, lamented Colonel, everytime I see that scene... in which Jim is being beat up and the bad guy says 'there's a friend of yours in this pueblo', I can't help thinking that Jim's thinking its Artie, not the Colonel before he gets his head turned, that is.
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Post by artiesniecewannabe on Feb 11, 2013 22:10:53 GMT -8
Well, Rielle, I know I thought it was Artie before Jim turned to look!
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Post by California gal on Feb 12, 2013 8:00:59 GMT -8
GMTA. When I went to bed last night I started thinking about Inferno and the opening scenes. Other than show us that Jim West was a sexy man and Artie can do disguises, I cannot think of any reason for the "introduction" of either Jim or Artie in that manner.
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rielle
Book Worm
yeah, THAT smile.
Posts: 497
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Post by rielle on Feb 12, 2013 11:36:34 GMT -8
I tried to "explain" some of the imponderables in Pistoleros in my story, but I sure wish they had done it in the episode instead--and made it a 2-part story! Another thing that bothers me is in Headless Woman when Jim comes into the parlor car with his date and the container of the hybrid boll weevils. WHY? Why are those creatures still alive? Why take the chance they would escape and/or breed other monstrous boll weevils? Why did one of them (and I can't remember which one) as earlier, "what are we going to do with these?" Pour kerosene on them! CG, you did a fine job with that story, and Ghu knows we all can see plot holes in these eps even the best that were never noticed, I suspect in the weekly rush to get a new episode produced for the network. Headless Woman is not a favorite, lets start with the mannequin 'herself' who looks like an overgrown Barbie doll, [very 1960s] not to mention weevils like all other bugs start out really small... so how come some of them didn't make their way out of that particular 'luggage'?
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Post by California gal on Feb 12, 2013 11:37:18 GMT -8
Talking about Poisonous Posey (in the other thread), it always baffles me why Jim and Artie accept the near-hanging with such equanimity! I know the episode is supposed to be one of the more comic ones, but you'd think they would be just a little annoyed. And why did the sheriff and townsfolk THINK that strangers riding in would just go along with the gag when they certainly could not know what was going on!
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tyche
Wannabe
My Favourite Hero
Posts: 108
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Post by tyche on Feb 12, 2013 13:05:36 GMT -8
Talking of Poisonous Posey, maybe both Jim and Artie were just completely taken aback. I don't know if they were going in incognito but even so, even if they weren't known, to suddenly be arrested and subjected to vigilante justice (is it called that when the arrested person is hanged on the spot?) I'm sure there's another name for it. Anyway, it does annoy me that when Jim and Artie extricate themselves from their bonds and the townspeople look pissed off. What did they expect them to do? Smile sweetly and say, 'Oh I'm so sorry, I didn't realise that this was a joke?' I'm assuming that in the Old West, being lynched would not have been a joke. Anyway, that's my rant. I'm sure that there are other imponderables will come to mind when I watch through my episodes again.
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Post by LuckyLadybug on Feb 13, 2013 4:15:23 GMT -8
I think the whole town of Justice is a bit kooky. (Maybe they're too far removed from reality out in the middle of nowhere and the desert fried their brains.) So it doesn't surprise me much that the sheriff and all of the townsfolk would have such a weird frame of mind. Coley Rodman jeers at the sheriff and the whole town several times in one of my stories. And yes, I definitely think Jim and Arte were taken aback. They probably didn't know what to make of anything until the guy was ready to, they thought, drop the floor and they snapped to action.
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Post by California gal on Feb 13, 2013 14:36:20 GMT -8
In Underground Terror I always have to wonder how China knew so little about her father's activities. It seemed she was on the run with him and his pals. How did she not know that the names on the "wall of honor" were fake, and that her father could walk, not to mention the other injuries being faked. Maybe another reason why the show should have been 90 minutes long or more 2-part episodes!
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Post by Double Take on Feb 13, 2013 16:08:52 GMT -8
I haven't read all the posts so maybe someone mentioned this. Why are the bad guys always hiding up in trees and the like?
In Avarious Actuary they are hiding in the tree by the wagon, just waiting to pounce on Jim.
In Falcon they are hiding on a ledge, again just waiting to pounce on Jim.
I think there are other examples as well.
About the only one that makes sense is the rib crusher in Sudden Death.
I would hate to be a guard perched in a tree or on a ledge for hours on end just waiting for an intruder on whom I can work out my kinks.
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Nydiva
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ross-martin-remembered.com
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Post by Nydiva on Feb 13, 2013 16:13:39 GMT -8
I always wondered about the rationale behind Miguelito going from abhoring spirits to avidly seeking out a favorite quaff. Just did - no hint of an explanation.
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tyche
Wannabe
My Favourite Hero
Posts: 108
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Post by tyche on Feb 13, 2013 16:32:08 GMT -8
Maybe West's constant defeat of him finally made him turn to the devil drink for comfort? Another fanfic idea....
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Post by artiesniecewannabe on Feb 13, 2013 16:42:36 GMT -8
Oh, here's one, also from Underground Terror. Artie goes through the gate at 443, seems to look around, and yet he didn't see the Romans?
I'm also not quite clear on just who those clowns were that were shooting at Jim and China at the beginning, the ones whose shot killed Corporal Hayden.
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Nydiva
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Post by Nydiva on Feb 13, 2013 16:47:12 GMT -8
Maybe West's constant defeat of him finally made him turn to the devil drink for comfort? Another fanfic idea.... Awww...poor Miguelito! I've always had a soft spot for him!
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Post by California gal on Feb 13, 2013 17:21:01 GMT -8
Oh, here's one, also from Underground Terror. Artie goes through the gate at 443, seems to look around, and yet he didn't see the Romans? I'm also not quite clear on just who those clowns were that were shooting at Jim and China at the beginning, the ones whose shot killed Corporal Hayden. For that matter, how did Artie know which 443 to go to? I always assumed the goons who shot Corporal Hayden were some of Mosely's men.
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Post by artiesniecewannabe on Feb 13, 2013 17:42:53 GMT -8
Huh. You're right, I didn't think about that, but how did Artie know which street in all of New Orleans #443 was on?
I do enjoy all the Shakespearean references in this episode.
Come to think of it, Underground Terror has one of the best imponderables in the whole series: the flip-lidded table with the drinks in the tag! ;D
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Post by California gal on Feb 14, 2013 10:47:25 GMT -8
I watched Man-Eating House last night and something in that one always puzzles me a bit. I know it's a dream, but the script was not originally written as a dream. Dreams sometimes have strange things in them that don't really make sense, but from what we've learned about this episode, CBS didn't like a ghost story so John Kneubuhl rewrote it as a dream--and it was still scary.
Why in the world did Day (or his father) put a trap door on the second floor, and why was the activation switch in his mother's bedroom? And realizing it was on the second floor it was a pretty fair drop to (I presume) the basement for our heroes. Amazing they got up unhurt.
I also wonder if ants can really carry the bubonic plague. Fleas were the carrier when it devastated Europe back when.
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Post by LuckyLadybug on Feb 15, 2013 13:45:34 GMT -8
I've wondered how they landed in the basement from the second floor. The trapdoor should have landed them on the main floor! The only explanation I can see for that is that there were two trapdoors that opened simultaneously. And in any case, ouch indeed!
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tyche
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My Favourite Hero
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Post by tyche on Feb 16, 2013 11:07:06 GMT -8
No, I'm afraid that ants can't carry the bubonic plague. It's fleas. The bacterium Yersinia pestis is ingested by the flea and fills the gut of the creature making it impossible for the creature to feed, so when it bites another animal it regurgitates some of the bacterium into the animal's bloodstream. Bit of a shame really as otherwise it might have been quite a good plot point Or maybe not....
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Post by California gal on Feb 16, 2013 11:44:20 GMT -8
I suspect they would have had more trouble controlling and displaying fleas than ants!
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