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Post by California gal on Jan 19, 2013 11:48:36 GMT -8
Both cats and dogs had significant appearances in The Wild Wild West. I believe, however, that cats had more appearances where they made a difference in the episode. 1. Burning Diamonds, where the Persian cat Sultan clued Jim into the fact that something was amiss with the kitty's owner. 2. Fugitives, where a cat greeted Jim in the church, and then later, apparently, jumped for the swinging bell rope, which apparently convinced the baddies that kitty was responsible for the bell ringing.  I know there is at least one or two more meaningful cat appearances which I'm not remembering right now. As for dogs, the only one I can think of that was helpful was the dog in Bars of Hell, which Jim knelt down to pet just as the baddie hurled the red hot horseshoe. |
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Post by missgordon on Jan 19, 2013 12:34:46 GMT -8
most interesting calgal!! So I was thinking of you when i was listening to RC radio from recent show. Someone called in asking if the underwear tearer scene was boxers or briefs to RC!!
LOL! I think I heard correctly from the radio show that from a fansite ---that's us!! someone mentioned tidy whities--sorry of the spelling-- I think that was your quote.
ANyway RC was asked if it was boxers or briefs and he said boxers. But the way he answered I'm not sure he remembers the scene as vividly as the rest of us!
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Post by LuckyLadybug on Jan 19, 2013 13:17:29 GMT -8
LOL, oh gosh. It's amazing what fans will actually say to the celebs.
On cats versus dogs in the show, it does seem like there were more cats! Which fits right in with my preference for including cats in my stories.
There was also the kitty in The Big Blackmail that stowed away and later played with the cutouts of Jim and Arte going around the room.
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Post by LuckyLadybug on Jan 19, 2013 14:03:59 GMT -8
I'd forgotten about some of those dogs! Some of them were just incidental, though, weren't they? I was thinking the thread was specifically for animals important to the plot, which the Deadly Bed/Bars of Hell dogs and those fake wolves definitely were. LOL, it's hilarious how they tried to make those dogs look like wolves.  And hissing kitty! Aww. I love how shiny black cats are. |
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Post by artiesniecewannabe on Jan 19, 2013 14:24:20 GMT -8
There was the cat that Jim kept flipping over to watch it lands on its feet; that was in Dancing Death. He compares how the cat lands on its feet to Prince Gio.
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Post by California gal on Jan 19, 2013 14:34:19 GMT -8
I'd forgotten about some of those dogs! Some of them were just incidental, though, weren't they? I was thinking the thread was specifically for animals important to the plot, which the Deadly Bed/Bars of Hell dogs and those fake wolves definitely were. LOL, it's hilarious how they tried to make those dogs look like wolves. And hissing kitty! Aww. I love how shiny black cats are. Yes, cats (or dogs) important to the plot is what I'm looking for in this thread. Cats appeared in a number of places incidentally, like on the counter in the store in Wolf and one startled Jim in the street in another episode. We saw dogs in the streets occasionally. BTW, I love dogs, had them all the time growing up, but I'm really a cat person. Not to mention they fit my lifestyle better.  |
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Post by California gal on Jan 19, 2013 14:37:33 GMT -8
There was the cat that Jim kept flipping over to watch it lands on its feet; that was in Dancing Death. He compares how the cat lands on its feet to Prince Gio. I never quite get the motive for that scene. How did it help Jim at all? Surely he already knew that a fine athlete will land on his feet. I don't watch that episode often, but in the fight scene, did Gio flip and land on his feet? Besides which as much as I love Jim, this is the one time I get annoyed with him, teasing that poor kitten. ;D |
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Post by LuckyLadybug on Jan 19, 2013 14:52:35 GMT -8
No intrusion at all! Some of the dogs you posted were important to the plots, and in any case, it's fun to see all the pictures. I didn't like seeing Jim flipping the kitten over either, but said kitten is adorable and your caption is hilarious, Ace. LOL. |
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Post by California gal on Jan 19, 2013 16:06:51 GMT -8
The pictures are OK. I just wanted to make my intention clear, to discuss the animals that were important to the plot. The ones that startled Jim are amusing and add to the atmosphere, but didn't affect the plot.
Funny, I think Jim interacted more with the cats than Artie did. Other than in Big Blackmail, did Artie have anything to do with either cats or dogs? I can't think of any--but then my memory is known to be faulty!
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Apple
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Post by Apple on Jan 19, 2013 18:50:56 GMT -8
The kitty in The Night of the Raven was a big part of the plot...am i doing this right?
I always thought that Artemus had more interaction with the animals, but I think that I might be wrong. Since I didn't watch Jim as much as I did Arte... ;D I think that I really had no clue!
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Post by California gal on Jan 19, 2013 19:34:41 GMT -8
You're right, Apple. I forgot about that kitty in Raven. Definitely part of Loveless's plan to destroy Jim in a particularly nasty way. I always wondered if he was going to feed the remnants to his plants...  |
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Post by California gal on Jan 19, 2013 19:35:35 GMT -8
nice pics calgirl. wonder if anyone knows where he lives now or anything about him now? Sorry, Miss Gordon, I don't understand. Where who lives now? |
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Post by missgordon on Jan 19, 2013 20:11:20 GMT -8
nice pics calgirl. wonder if anyone knows where he lives now or anything about him now? Sorry, Miss Gordon, I don't understand. Where who lives now? sorry calgal. I can't remember what that was so i just deleted the post. I think I was responding to a hm wyant post recently but hey this is cats and dogs post so forgive me and you can probably delete this rambling. |
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Post by artiesniecewannabe on Jan 19, 2013 20:13:10 GMT -8
There was the cat that Jim kept flipping over to watch it lands on its feet; that was in Dancing Death. He compares how the cat lands on its feet to Prince Gio. I never quite get the motive for that scene. How did it help Jim at all? Surely he already knew that a fine athlete will land on his feet. I don't watch that episode often, but in the fight scene, did Gio flip and land on his feet? Besides which as much as I love Jim, this is the one time I get annoyed with him, teasing that poor kitten. ;D I always assumed Jim was speaking metaphorically, that Prince Gio would land on his feet in the sense of being successful in difficult situations -- the opposite of falling on his face. (But then, more or less, Prince Gio wound up literally falling on his face in the end.) Now that you mention it though, Cal gal, I'm not sure how important to the plot this particular cat is. Jim sure flips it over a lot of times though! Maybe they needed to pad the episode a bit to make it longer?? Frankly, that whole scene in the varnish car is a bit weird, what with Artie being sent out of scene on a flimsy pretext, and the girl trying to seduce Jim, and then Artie coming back and yelling at her so that she admits the princess is still alive -- that bit of dialogue really did not make sense to me. But the cat is cute. I'm a sucker for fluffy kitties. |
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Post by LuckyLadybug on Jan 20, 2013 0:28:11 GMT -8
Very interestingly put. I couldn't remember exactly what the dogs' purpose in Skulls was, so I wasn't sure if they contributed to the main plot or not. But I thought they might have been looking for Jim after his flight, in which case they would have been pretty important. And setting the stage for the hunting scenario at the beginning is important too.
And I was thinking that even though the little boy and dog in Inferno weren't really part of the main plot, per se, it definitely was a moving and poignant shot. It's one that's always stood out to me when I've watched the episode. And it was supposed to help set the scene, it's true.
I was envisioning animals that had more screentime relating to the main plot, I think, but put into these contexts, it's true that there could be several interpretations of what's important to the main plot.
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Post by alltrekkedup on Jan 20, 2013 6:25:20 GMT -8
Wow,I love the way you broke that down Ace,about the cat,Jim and Prince Gio! Good job! ;D
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Post by California gal on Jan 20, 2013 7:32:09 GMT -8
Sorry you wasted your time with all that, Ace. I still concur with Niecie. It was just a bit of fluff(y kitten). Jim West didn't need to study a cat's moves to know how to fight! And good grief, we all know what a plot is. The German shepherd dogs enhanced the plot in Deadly Bed, perhaps showing us that Flory was a complicated man. But if the dogs hadn't been in the episode, nothing would have changed as far as the plot goes. Same with the cats that startled Jim. Throwing those other cats in were just distractions and didn't change the story one whit. The dog in Bars of Hell was definitely part of the plot. Kneeling down to pet him caused the thrown missile to miss Jim. If they hadn't put the dog (or some other distraction) in, the subsequent plot would have been different. The cat who hung on the bell rope in Fugitives was part of the plot. It prevented the bad guys from thoroughly searching the church. The entire plot would have shifted if they went up the ladder and found Jim and his prisoner. I didn't say the wolves were incidental. I didn't even mention the wolves. They also weren't "dogs" as far as the plot goes! ;D As for who determines what, this is my topic and so I get to do that. (I didn't want to discuss every dog or cat that appeared, only those that caused the plot to turn.) That's the way boards usually operate: the originator guides the discussion. I have no problem with all the pictures you post if you have the time to bother with them. I just skip over them when I read the thread. |
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Post by western666 on Jan 20, 2013 8:02:32 GMT -8
That therory makes a lot of sense Ace and I liked how you explained it ;D
Having a kitty Sifu would be so cute ;D
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Post by arabella on Jan 20, 2013 8:40:50 GMT -8
I rather liked the way that Ace found some meaning in Jim's playing with the kitten--not that he actually needs a cat to teach him martial arts, but it's a reminder or connection for him, one I certainly never noticed. Otherwise, I didn't like Jim flipping the kitten, but that's my 21st-century sensibilities applying to a 1960s--oops, I mean 1870s--scene. Thread topics often expand beyond what the original poster intended. I think it's a natural tendency. Anyway, I agree with the original point, that there seem to be more cats in the series than dogs. Like Apple, I was surprised that it's usually Jim rather than Artie who interacts with them. I've always thought of Jim as moving in a catlike way so I guess it's appropriate.  |
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Post by Nydiva on Jan 20, 2013 8:48:32 GMT -8
Does the bird in TNOT Colonel's Ghost count? Not a cat or dog, but Artie did try to interrogate the bird (now that sounds funny).
If this doesn't fit, ignore me! ;D
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Post by California gal on Jan 20, 2013 8:50:44 GMT -8
Absolutely, threads often go off topic. In fact they usually do. That's part of what makes us a community. I've been guilty of that myself. But in this case, I was explaining my intention of this thread. No problem that Ace wants to post of picture of every animal that ever appeared in the series. She loves posting pictures and obviously has the time to do it. (I know from experience how much time it takes to select, edit, upload and post pictures.) But my intent in this thread is to talk about the ones that actually affected the action of the episode: the plot.
For instance, the dog(s) in the background of the early scene of Murderous Spring set the tone of a small town, but has nothing whatsoever to do with the story we are about to see.
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Post by California gal on Jan 20, 2013 11:38:15 GMT -8
Ace, let's not start this again. I think I explained myself--a couple of times. 1. It's my thread and I decide the topic and what is relevant to that topic. My topic is the dogs and cats who had roles in the episode other than just a walk-on that had nothing to do with the plot. You are not "on topic" by merely posting pictures of animals that appeared. You can post about them, but don't expect me to agree they are what I want to talk about. Remember, it is possible for people to disagree with me, or with you. We've gone over this so many, many times. 2. I've told you that I have no problem if you want to post pictures of every animal that appeared. I've said that a couple of times. Only that many of those are not the ones I intended to discuss. I quote my opening post: "Both cats and dogs had significant appearances in The Wild Wild West. I believe, however, that cats had more appearances where they made a difference in the episode" And "I know there is at least one or two more meaningful cat appearances which I'm not remembering right now." ... "As for dogs, the only one I can think of that was helpful was the dog in Bars of Hell, which Jim knelt down to pet just as the baddie hurled the red hot horseshoe." [added underline and italic] I suppose I could have made a clearer statement, but I thought everyone would understand what I meant. 3. I'm not saying you can't post in my thread. Just don't expect me to agree that the animals you select are the ones I have in mind! 4. I know what a PLOT is. I don't need a definition of it. I've written a few plots, you know. ;D I'm a cat person! My whole point in starting the thread was selfish. I wanted to point out that cats played more important roles than dogs did! It's nothing to argue about, that's for sure. So post your pictures and your videos. I don't care. But let's talk about the animals who actually did something in the show other than hiss or bark. That is what I want to talk about and that's what a thread like this is for, to talk. Threads will often go "off topic" but for the moment, I was trying to keep it somewhat focused. I never told you that you couldn't post. I don't know you personally--only our encounters here on the board which, as you know, have not been very favorable. I'd just like for you to recognize my right to my opinions, just as I recognize yours. Start a thread about ALL the animals who appeared. I'll post there (unless you forbid me) with my recollections of animals that were in the background of various episodes. (Including the unseen dog that barked in Human Trigger!  ) By the way, in scanning the thread, I see that Luckyladybug originally asked for clarification (indirectly) of my ideas for the thread, and I replied directly to her. Your posts/pictures were not mentioned. |
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Post by rielle on Jan 20, 2013 12:13:10 GMT -8
I enjoyed a lot of the animals that show up on W3, although of course the horses that were ridden by various characters were probably the most important to the stories... except in eps that concentrated on the train, or on scenes in someone's mansion, such as Simian Terror...
I haven't lived with a dog for about 30 years and I love them, but as I've mostly rented places it can be problematic, trying to keep a dog healthy and happy in an apartment or small house setting, while the renters are gone most of the day... I wouldn't want to keep a dog in that kind of inactive misery.
In 33 years I've been owned by 14 cats, not counting the ones my sibs and I had as kids and the reason I bother to mention that is I loved the way Jim and Artie were both portrayed as being kind and patient with the cats and dogs they encountered, except in the obvious cases of Florey's 'pets' which were trained to become vicious on command. I think it was a nice touch to both characters that Jim would note the significance of that big white cat in Burning Diamond, and Artie would make sure that stowaway cat got back to Denver...
Both agents thus showed a gentler side to their natures and that was refreshing, in my opinion. Also, Jim showed his perceptiveness in that ep and to some extent, showed it more in the first season... I liked that too. He wasn't only another tough guy in a dangerous line of work. And it does seem to me that cats took on plot-point significance more often than dogs did.
things I didn't like that Wild, Wild West did with the animals brought into the stories were for example those dogs [probably German shepherds] they painted black to supposedly look like wolves, I'm thinking that couldn't have been healthy for the dogs involved - And the toy dog thrown at Jim instead of having a well trained animal in that scene... why? Dogs had been trained to work on movies and in television for a long time at that point... and stuntmen knew how to work with them, certainly. I can't say that it bothers me to see Jim flipping the kitten... unless they're tossed directly from a window below a certain level to a hard surface, such as a street or sidewalk, cat's physiology is such that they turn around in the air and land on all four paws. Its a survival adaptive trait for a species that once primarily found its best security in treetops.
I could take this next question to another thread but I'm always a little confused and a little amused by the various martial arts displayed on our favourite programme... I know they were in existence in Japan and the Far East for centuries ... sure. They were invented there. But to show an Albanian prince, a hoarde of various and sundry henchmen, not to mention an American Federal agent in the 1870s all of whom know and use karate, etc etc that really forces me to suspend disbelief in a big way. LOL Prince Gio would have been truer to his time and his nation's current events of that period if he'd used fighting/assassin techniques practiced by the Ottoman Turks who were taking over Albania in that time period. Sigh.
I was glad when after the first season most of the fight scenes moved away from that style. Its a wonderful practice... both physically and spiritually, of course. Its aesthetically fascinating to watch and truly arduous, I believe, to practice. It just doesn't belong in the America of the post Civil War era. It belongs in the world of Man from Uncle, and of course, the James Bond novels and movies.
Of course, I'm a history nut so I get pulled out of the story by anachronisms... I shouldn't let that bother me but it still does. Silly me.
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Post by California gal on Jan 20, 2013 13:04:23 GMT -8
Historical anachronisms often bother me in movies, books, and TV shows too. But if the story is good enough, I can overlook them. ;D
I think what bothers me with the kitten is that it is trying to get away and he keeps pulling it back. I've always been one who pretty much allow the cats to do what they want, whether it's getting on my lap at an inconvenient time or leaving just when I want to cuddle them. Of course, my cats aren't spoiled or anything!
I took the scene to mean that Jim was trying to discern something that Gio was doing, not that he was going to do. As I said earlier, I don't watch that episode often, and don't recall the fights very clearly. Maybe I'll force myself to watch it.
I don't know if anyone has mentioned another cat: the BIG pussycat in Circus of Death. Very important to the plot, to show what danger Jim was in from the bad guys.
And has the dog in Bleak Island been mentioned? In that case, it's another instance where a breed of dog was misrepresented, like the surly German shepherds in Deadly Bed. In Bleak Island, the dog was important to the plot, not only in terrorizing the residents, but being the cause of Sir Nigel's downfall--gaining revenge on his tormenter. My mind is completely blanking out of what breed that dog was, but I do know it's not necessarily a vicious dog.
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Post by LuckyLadybug on Jan 20, 2013 14:20:07 GMT -8
I think the dog in Bleak Island is a Rottweiler.
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Post by California gal on Jan 20, 2013 15:32:29 GMT -8
I think the dog in Bleak Island is a Rottweiler. Right! I could not think of that. Kept coming up with Doberman and I knew that wasn't right. I used to know a woman who had two Rottweilers and they were the sweetest dogs you could ever know. |
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Post by arabella on Jan 20, 2013 16:22:43 GMT -8
I think it's interesting that there are more cats than dogs in the series. I mean, wouldn't you expect a Western to have more dogs? Ranchers, settlers, everyone had them. Plus dogs are easier to train and work with. But it seems that secret agents and villains prefer cats. Cats are stealthy and silent and fit better into the small train set. Imagine a dog walking around in the train knocking things down with his tail. ;D Any breed of dog can be sweet and loving if it's raised right. I don't think there are any vicious breeds. |
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Post by Nydiva on Jan 20, 2013 16:25:06 GMT -8
Is this limited to cats and dogs? (More of a cat person myself.) One animal that WAS essential to the plot was good old Akbar (boy I hope I got the name right) in TNOT Gypsy Peril. Loved the scene where Artie is feeding him peanuts.
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Post by California gal on Jan 20, 2013 16:30:34 GMT -8
Forgot about good old Akbar! I think that was the only critter that wasn't a cat or dog--oh, wait! The bird in Dr. Loveless Died that memorized the will. Now, the writers could have come up with another way to present the will, but in this case, the boid was absolutely essential because they DIDN'T do it another way. I'm sure someone else can say what kind of bird it was. I should have made the topic "animals" essential to the plots! Should we mention the rats in Man-Eating House? |
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Post by California gal on Jan 20, 2013 16:32:22 GMT -8
It is interesting that they featured more cats than dogs. Maybe Rin Tin Tin wasn't available. Or maybe a cat wrangler was a friend of someone. It ain't easy training cats, but it can be done.
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