just a trio of odd questions

[rielle]

odd questions pertaining to some potential fanfics of mine, what other kind would you expect from me, anyhow?

first of all: We know from Lord of Limbo that Jim is strong enough to pick Artie up and carry him -- we don't know how far before the time-vortex-gizmo took over - Assuming [as I've been instructed by those wiser than I] that Jim weighs what would be normal for his height - about 160lbs, and Artie weighs what would be normal for his height - about 200lbs - that's still not any small feat imo

But the first question is this:
with a critical situation going on, and thus likely the help of our
old friend adrenalin, would it be believable to you as a reader
of fanfic or original fiction - that Artie could lift and carry Jim [unconscious or he'd be helping] away from someone or something posing imminent danger?

pls note, I'm phrasing this as what Artie would be able to do, before the willing suspension of disbelief would ... stop being so willing?

the second question is a two parter and warning its also kinda maudlin, I guess:
a)
if Jim had actually been killed in one of the eps where it seems he has been [however briefly as in the end of Deadly Bed] what would Artie do?
would he use force or 'guile and cunning' to get the bad guys involved?
would he keep on as a agent after making sure the bad guys involved met justice?
or
would Artie be so bummed out he would turn against all of that ?

b)
same question for Jim - and yes, I know we see one version of the answer in Pistoleros - but humor me, if this sparks your imagination.

3)
what circumstances as part of a case or investigation would hit our agents hardest:
a) the death of a friend/fellow agent?
b) the discovery that an old friend or acquaintance is a bad guy?
[yes, this comes up in Samurai]
c) the death of or serious injury to a child during an investigation?
d) the loss of a family member?
e) the death of one of the colonels? -kind fits under a), yeah
f) the return of an old flame - who has a new flame?
g)
h)
i)
j)
etc etc etc etc

well I keep my imagination busy - especially when our internet goes out as it has three times this month - with these kind of questions - so I thought I would share.

obviously this is subjective as all get out- and any response is welcome.

very glad to be here amongst such very good friends

[California gal]

First off, yes, I definitely think Artie could carry Jim, adrenalin or no. I'm pretty sure I had that happen in some story but I can't remember which. I had no doubt.

I'm going to have to think a little about your other questions.

[MissRedhead]

oh goodness! I'm going to have to think hard about some of these!

1) totally, Artie could carry Jim (like you said, it's no small feat that Jim could carry Artie!)

2a) ermmmm uhhhhhhh I guess in my WWW universe, I'd have Artie uhhhhh. Oh my... the possibilities are rather endless... I'd guess in my writing I'd have Artie continue as an agent and bring the bad guys to justice then resign... but I would be willing to accept other possibilities in other's fanfics...

2b) as for Jim... hmmm... I'd say he'd stay an agent and bring the bad guys to justice and keep on as an agent if he hasn't gotten himself fired for his actions... but like I said for Artie, I'd be willing to accept other possibilities....

3) well I would say the death of their partner would hit Jim or Artie the hardest... after that... I'd say for Artie the death/injury of a child, for Jim the betrayal of a friend who turns out to be a bad guy... but yeah, again, willing to accept other renditions

[Nydiva]

We're all pretty much agreed that Artie could carry Jim. For once, I'm with the majority opinion.

Both Artie and Jim would stay on to bring the killer to justice, but I think what they'd do afterwards would differ.

Artie, heartbroken, would return to his former profession as an outlet for his grief. (Acting can be a great catharsis). Though eventually he could be tempted to take on an occasional assignment depending upon its nature.

Jim, I believe, would continue because that occupation is the only one he knows. Not to say that he couldn't do anything else (he's a man of many capabilities) , but I feel that his nature would compel him to remain in service. And I think he would be even more stoic because he couldn't bear to develop another friendship and risk losing it.

I think the death of a colleague, a death of a child and then a death of a relative would affect our agents most.

[LuckyLadybug]

(Oh my, I have to ask ... are you toying with killing one of the Colonels? Richmond, for instance?)

I definitely think Arte could carry Jim.

Interesting that your other queries should come up now! I've been toying with a possible fic idea where Jim is forced to fake his death for a while. I think I would be planning to have Arte keep on as an agent, albeit probably a very discouraged and disconsolate one. Maybe keeping on because he feels he owes that to Jim, continuing the pursuit of the bad guys and protecting the country, as Jim felt was so important. I don't know, however, if that would be in keeping with his character as much as him getting out of the business. He might feel so discouraged that he would wonder if it even mattered anymore. Hmm. I might have him struggle with that, at least, before deciding to keep on. Oh, and I totally agree with Nydiva that if the situation were reversed, Jim would be much more stoic, unable to bear becoming close to someone again and losing him.

And I think Miss Redhead probably has it pegged pretty good for what would hit Jim and Arte hardest and second hardest.

Good luck with your stories!

[western666]

I think Artie could carry Jim:D
and as for your other questions
those are tough ones:D

[w3mom]

I think that I am going against the tide. My answer to number one is that I think Artie could carry Jim for a short spurt under extreme duress. But under normal circumstances, I'm not so sure. I read in one of the Little House books, that a 2-bushel bag of grain weighed about 125 lbs, and it was difficult for "Pa" to handle after a winter on starvation rations, but no one offered to help him carry it, because "...a man does not like to admit that he cannot carry 125 lbs." It is conceivable that Artie could carry that and a bit more, but I'm not so convinced. However, I am willing to be convinced! If you write it, I will come...

As for number 3, I would definitely put death of a partner highest on the list of which would hit the agents hardest. THis would be followed by a the death of a child (recall Artie's face in "Amnesiac" when the little coffin was carried out of the church?) I think it would be even worse if they saw themselves as somehow at fault - an accident or they weren't able to do something in time ("Amnesiac" again).

Number 2 is a bit harder. I have to go and deal with real life right now (I hear howling in the background) but I will consider and come back.

[LuckyLadybug]

Had everyone been on starvation rations, though? If so, maybe they were all a bit weakened and would find carrying 125 lbs more difficult than usual.

[California gal]

I'm going to stick with my thought that Artie could carry Jim, at least for a short distance, and if desperation was involved, adrenaline would help him do it for longer.

As for "Pa" having trouble with 125 pounds, I wonder how tall he really was and how much he himself weighed. In that era 5'8" was about average size for men (General Philip Sheridan was only about 5 feet tall.) Could be that the real Pa did not exactly resemble Michael Landon in physique.

When I was 12-13 years old, I could carry 2 full 5-gallon buckets of water about 50 yards. No clue how much they weighed (except that they were heavy). I was probably around 5'2" at that time. No clue how much I weighed except I was considered skinny. (Oh, those were the days!)

What I'm saying is I had to carry those buckets twice a day (and come to think of it, my younger sister carried 2 more right alongside me!). I'm sure doing that built up some stamina and muscles. Artie isn't exactly in the same shape as Jim, but he is an active man. He works out with Jim, not to mention doing a lot of riding.

So, again, yes, I think Artie could and would carry Jim for as long and over whatever distance necessary to help and save his friend.

[California gal]

As for the other questions posed...

If Jim was killed, I think Artie would do whatever necessary by any means to bring the guilty parties down. Whereas Jim as ready to kill Sanchos, apparently in cold blood, I'm not sure Artie would go that far. Not that he'd have qualms about killing Jim's murderer, but I think he would attempt to bring that person to legal justice.

Afterwards... Artie might try remaining in the service, but I suspect the zest would have gone out of it. He would probably retire, perhaps take up acting again, maybe with Lily. They could marry and be an early version of Lunt and Fontanne.

Definitely either agent would be affected most by his partner's death (as demonstrated a couple of times in the show). They don't seem to be overly emotional about the deaths of other agents, such as in Eccentrics. Just angry.

The death of a child would affect them, especially if they knew the child. Same with the death of a woman, and probably any close friend. As military men, they would feel the death of any of the colonels, and it would probably depend on the length of their acquaintance and service with said colonel as to how deep their grief would be.

Family member is a little hard to say because, in the show at least, they appear to have no kin. But I suspect Artie would show grief more than Jim would--and that would apply in almost any circumstance other than the death of the partner.

There's 4¢ worth.

[western666]

Alright question 2 is gonna take some more thinking:D but heres my answer to number three I think for both Jim and Artie the others death would be on the top of the list but death or serious injury of a child would be really close behide and as for old flames with new flames I don't think that would bother Jim all that much and It definitely would make Artie sad if Lily was with someone else. but I would put it on the bottom of the list cause at least the old flame is living:D

[arabella]

FYI, a gallon of water weighs 8 pounds, so 5 gal = 40 pounds.

I'm sure Artie could carry Jim at least for a short distance. I base this guess on the story that my hubby, who is about Ross's size, once carried his father down a set of stairs. Hubby is a pretty sturdy guy, but it's not like he works out, and I don't think his dad was much smaller than he is.
I'd also put Artie's weight about 180 or 190 tops. RC's actual weight may have been less than 160 too--he was all muscle, but very lean.

Re question 2, a: I'd go with cunning and guile, force if that's more convenient, but oh yeah I think he'd get the bad guys. No regrets either. Artie has a cold-blooded side.
Would he continue as an agent? I can imagine that he might retire from fieldwork, maybe go into teaching or more research into blowie uppies and gadgets. It's easy to imagine that he wouldn't have the heart to take on another partner, although I think he would miss the exciting life of fieldwork. You could also make a good case that he would leave the service altogether and go back to acting--at least for a while. I think Artie really loves his work because it combines his skills in a way that nothing else can.

b: We know Jim would get the bad guys, personally and immediately--it's hard to imagine him doing anything else. I think he would stay in the service and accept a new partner, and Mr. Never Talks About His Feelings would be kind enough not to compare the newbie to the great partner he used to have. But it would never be the same for him. But he's pretty young, it seems too soon for him to retire from fieldwork.

3: Since Our Heroes have no families of their own, I would also tend to put "loss of friend/colleague" at the top of the list. I don't know whether death or injury to a child would really be that much worse than any other death or injury--I don't see much indication that the guys are particularly sentimental about children. "Return of an old flame" is an interesting one. Jim would never admit how much that would hurt, so it's hard for me to estimate it. But since we know Lily Fortune, I can imagine that Artie would be torn up. Not to the extent of the death of someone close to him, whether friend or relative, though.

[California gal]

I didn't answer the part about how Jim would react to the death of a partner/colleague/relative, etc.

Pretty much as he did in Pistoleros. I cannot see him behaving any differently if Artie WAS killed. After an initial show of emotion, he would go cold as ice and do whatever needs to be done. He was ready to kill Sanchos, it seems, in cold blood (and perhaps a little too intent and careless, letting Sanchos make the first move).

As to whether he would stay in the Secret Service, I'd say so. For a while at least. He might well realize it would never be the same (as he might have already learned when Artie was sent to Washington for special duty, but he knew that was temporary), and try something else, like buying a horse ranch, or heading for a South Seas island.