venturing onto thin ice, deliberately

[rielle]

While in the process recently of revising biographies for Jim and Artie, and of trying to work on one for 'the good doctor' as well, a number of questions crossed my writerly mind. [yeah, I made that word up ]

The main question that's making me ponder today is:

In their 'wild youths' or otherwise not in the line of duty, could or would either of our heroes/agents do anything that did not meet with Victorian society's standards?

This is for the purpose of fanfiction storyline/backstory work; so its not meant to directly dispute W3 canon at all.

I just want to know what other writers and fans here think:

Could either agent in their younger days have had an affair?

Could there be offspring they don't know about until a later date? Is that too much like a modern soap opera or a Victorian melerdramer?

Could either man at that younger age been in a brawl such that someone else in the fight was severely injured?

Would either one have gambled on horse races, or other 'games of chance'?

Did Jim [it just seems more likely] ever get in trouble while in prep school or the Army for ummm.... less than perfect compliance with authority figures?

Did Artie [again it just seems more like him] ever get into trouble with the law while 'showboating'?

Obviously in my battered brain these things are within the realm of the possible. But I'm looking for other's thoughts here as I so often do.

Opinions please? Even if you absolutely disagree with any such possibility. In fact if you strongly disagree, I'm even more glad to hear your point of view.

What's the purpose? I want to write these characters at least as believably as the various writers on the show did, [albeit with a couple of times that just DEMANDED the suspension of disbelief]

And I'm in process of working on three W3 stories that I really want to shine like the best of those shared here.

Thanks in advance for your input, friends.

[arabella]

Rielle, you thin-ice-walker, you!

Mar 25, 2013 12:27:30 GMT -8 rielle said:

While in the process recently of revising biographies for Jim and Artie, and of trying to work on one for 'the good doctor' as well, a number of questions crossed my writerly mind. [yeah, I made that word up ]

No ya didn't. It's in Webster's.

In their 'wild youths' or otherwise not in the line of duty, could or would either of our heroes/agents do anything that did not meet with Victorian society's standards?

Sure. I think so.

Could either agent in their younger days have had an affair?

Yes, of course. Do you mean, do I think that either of Our Heroes is a virgin? No, I don't. Hope I'm not being too blunt here... ;D

Could there be offspring they don't know about until a later date? Is that too much like a modern soap opera or a Victorian melerdramer?

Well, there could be, but I have to admit that one makes me uncomfortable.

Could either man at that younger age been in a brawl such that someone else in the fight was severely injured?

I think yes, quite likely. Jim is the most likely candidate, of course, but you never know.

Would either one have gambled on horse races, or other 'games of chance'?

Artie. For that matter, neither one hesitates to play poker, so they do gamble.

Did Jim [it just seems more likely] ever get in trouble while in prep school or the Army for ummm.... less than perfect compliance with authority figures?

Hmmm... I could go either way. I would say not in the Army. In school, maybe, but I don't picture him staying in college or military school very long because the war broke out and away he went.

Did Artie [again it just seems more like him] ever get into trouble with the law while 'showboating'?

Actors are notorious for misbehaving... on some minor offense, maybe.

Thanks, that was fun to think about!

[California gal]

I can speak to one question: I have a story where Jim has an offspring he did not know about, but it did not occur during his frivolous youth!

It all depends on what you imagine the two guys were like in their younger days, and we are all free to interpret that the way we want, since we know almost nothing (other than Jim obviously lived where there was snow since he broke his arm sledding).

I agree Jim would not have misbehaved while in the Army during the war. He is not that type. Artie could have inadvertently misbehaved, such as being caught imitating and mocking a commanding officer.

But these are two very honorable man and for that to be the case, one would think they would have had to have been raised properly. Unless of course something happened to cause them to be shocked out of being a rapscallion into a gentleman. Hard to believe that would occur for both of them though.

[diddlepie]

I'll throw my quarter in on this one:

I believe our boys could have gotten into pretty much of all the scraps you mention. They are both risk takers, Jim more so than Artie, but it's the element of their personalities that allow them to be be successful in such dangerous jobs.

I see Jim as the type that goes with his "gut" or unconscious decisions, Artie is more contemplative and goes more with a rational decision process. But given that they both have a boat load of self-confidence, they are men of action not in-action. They don't spend much (any?) time second guessing themselves. As you know, I'm in the process of writing a story with Artie having a child he was unaware of, and I think both men would have had more than their share of women ( self-confident, risk takers, and good looking to boot).

In terms of the law, Jim could certainly get into more trouble than Artie: gut reactions vs rational thought. I would agree with rielle's assessment on Jim with military conduct.

As for the good doctor, that I have LOTS of thoughts about as I have had experience with dwarfism, and I did a little exploration of that in TNOT Broken Heart.

I have more thoughts on Artie's background that come up in the story I'm doing now. Of course we ALL can have our takes on what their younger lives were like as the show never put much in place. As far as I'm concerned, as long as they all make sense in the characters we knew from the WWW, it's all good.

[piper]

OK...I venture in, too. I wrote a story, well, actually four stories that are all tied together, that covered a lot of these questions. Mine started just after the war, 1869, and told how Jim and Artie met and were teamed up. It covered a bit of each man's background. Also explains about Jim and West Point. Last story starts in 1884.

One thing about writing your own version of the guys is that you get to cover things you wanted to know about. I have Jim discovering he has a son, which nearly undoes him, and in the last story, he, the boy and Artie are off on another adventure. Plus, I have Artie and Lily together with a family.

Stories aren't posted here because they don't quite fit into the PG rating in places, or on FanFiction.net because I'm just too lazy to do it. Several folks here on the line have read them. If anyone else wants to read them, just email me and I'll send them to you.

Very interesting to read everyone's thoughts on the these questions. Great topic.

Piper

[Apple]

Really great questions, and I think that Arabella answered them well. An offspring they are unaware of? Sure, that could have happened, it's happened to men all over the world and throughout the centuries. I don't like to think that either of these men had that happen though, because it makes me sad to think that Jim or Artemus was missing out on their child for any length of time.

[arabella]

At the risk of taking this all too seriously, I would feel sorry for the child who grows up without a father, or at least the real father. That's why the idea makes me uncomfortable. Also for the woman who's placed in the position of having a child out of wedlock, which was serious business in those days. If her family couldn't or wouldn't provide for her, her best bet would be to move to a new town and pose as a widow.
I'm sure Jim or Artie would be horrified to think they had imposed this situation on anyone. On the other hand, they're healthy guys with healthy appetites. So it's interesting to think about. But I don't think I would use that storyline, if I were writing.

[California gal]

That's one reason why I had the mother of Jim's daughter be an unconventional woman, living alone, almost a hermit. She also died while the child was quite young, so that she didn't have to deal with raising the child alone.

But I agree, having children out of wedlock being acceptable is a fairly recent phenomenon. And even so, it's not 100% accepted. Back then it was a leading cause of suicide among women, I'm sure! And perhaps a few murders.

It's a tricky subject. Written right, I think it can be an entertaining story (naturally I would say that! ). Good luck to anyone who gives it a shot.