Apple
Desk Jockey
"Speaking of love, Apple..."
Posts: 2,202
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Post by Apple on May 12, 2013 15:03:39 GMT -8
Everybody remain calm...
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Post by California gal on May 12, 2013 15:30:27 GMT -8
There have been fics written about our agents encountering and dealing with children in some manner or another. That didn't happen in the show at all, other than very brief moments. Some of the fics are just plain silly, but others are true adventures. I wonder if the writers could have had them dealing with a child or two and made it real and entertaining, without going slapstick.
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Post by ast on May 12, 2013 15:56:49 GMT -8
Oh yeah, that's a good idea, more stories with children without the slapstick I agree. I haven't even read a fan fiction so that's something new for me to expand upon. I'm sure there are bad stories and great stories, writing is a learning experience as long as people have fun. People don't have to read the bad stories. I'm just glad to know that there are fan fiction writers out there to expand on the adventures of the Wild Wild West with James and Artemus, even if they do make mistakes or are off I'm sure there are great writers and stories out there. I just have to find them. ;D Maybe if I have the time I'd give it a whirl at writing.
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Apple
Desk Jockey
"Speaking of love, Apple..."
Posts: 2,202
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Post by Apple on May 12, 2013 16:04:03 GMT -8
Not hard to find, just look on fanfiction.net, go to tv shows, then to Wild Wild West. There are over 200 stories there. Some good, some not so good, but all an effort by someone to be creative and push the story of Jim and Artemus along for real fans. In fact, here's the link, to help you get there easily, Alicia! www.fanfiction.net/tv/Wild-Wild-West/
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Post by Mojave Mike on May 12, 2013 18:17:13 GMT -8
Damgummet! Heys Alicia! Yous didn’t like my Mojave Mike disguise? I thoughts that was my best performance be’in all funny and all! Almost got my brains blown out but I’m still here!! It ain’t over til Miss Kitty Twitty sings! Heh heh heh heh!!! ;D I would have fer sure wanted to see more Mojave Mike maken a return show’en up in more of them episodes, thems would’ve been funnier than that day I dressen up as one of them fillies in that dern rickety cart holdin up a jug of moonshine whiskey! Heh heh heh heh heh!!! ;D Guess'en that wasn't yer favorite disguise heh? It got the job done and it was dang dern funny!! Heh heh heh!!!! Any more of Jim & Artie would be fine by me!! With bad dudes Loveless, the Steal Man, Avery, Voltrain, Manzeppi, even that funny dude with the big head even more Votaire! Jest to name a few off the top of me head. Jest as long as it was Jim & Artie do'in their cool spy and gadget thing.
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Post by amw on May 13, 2013 14:56:11 GMT -8
I was thinking that having an episode involving a ironclad ship falling into the wrong hands.
Also a flashback to either Jim or Artie's experience during the Civil War. Showing a traumatic event that happened to either one of them, PTSD was triggered in Jim being tortured by Loveless or Artie reliving a similar event that reminded him of his buried trauma. The point would to see more of Jim and Artie's Civil war experiences. Being involved in war, I'm sure there was some degree of mental stress.
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Post by ast on May 13, 2013 20:14:36 GMT -8
Not hard to find, just look on fanfiction.net, go to tv shows, then to Wild Wild West. There are over 200 stories there. Some good, some not so good, but all an effort by someone to be creative and push the story of Jim and Artemus along for real fans. In fact, here's the link, to help you get there easily, Alicia! www.fanfiction.net/tv/Wild-Wild-West/Thanks for the heads up Apple I appreciate the link. As for you Mojave Mike, I happen to really like you. You were very funny!! The bar scene was great!! I don't know how those other actors could be so dead pan. The disguise I was referring to that seemed a bit unrealistic was from Montezuma's hordes, I don't remember the name of the character that Artie disguised as but he was also a desert rat. My question was, how did Artie maintain that disguise in the hot sun, temps over 100 degrees? The glue holding his beard would have melted off his face!!! And you know how hot and uncomfortable that must have been, it's bad enough from what I heard from men with real beards let alone wearing a fake beard. Unless the fake beard was more comfy. I just didn't see how Artie was able to maintain that disguise for so long. So don't you worry Mojave Mike, I like you just fine. ;D
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Post by arabella on May 14, 2013 3:47:26 GMT -8
I was thinking that having an episode involving a ironclad ship falling into the wrong hands. Also a flashback to either Jim or Artie's experience during the Civil War. Showing a traumatic event that happened to either one of them, PTSD was triggered in Jim being tortured by Loveless or Artie reliving a similar event that reminded him of his buried trauma. The point would to see more of Jim and Artie's Civil war experiences. Being involved in war, I'm sure there was some degree of mental stress. They could have made a terrific two-parter with flashbacks to the Civil War, maybe explaining how Our Heroes met. They had already worked together in Inferno, so how they met has never been told.
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Post by amw on May 15, 2013 1:30:04 GMT -8
Yes Arabella that's right, those ideas of Civil War flashbacks, how Jim and Artie first met, previous work they did together before Inferno, are really topics top on my list of what I would have liked to have seen. That would have really helped flesh out their backgrounds and given us a more personal view of how they got to where they are when we see them during the episodes time periods. And yes they could have done that in a few 2 part episodes (or more yes I'm greedy) that would have been like the cherry on top of the sundae. ;D Which would have lead to more information into Artie's past experience as an actor, and how he obtained his science/chemistry knowledge and his gadget creations. Also his disguise talent, was all that from acting or was it also something he learned at the academy? I would have really loved to see his whole acting background all the way back to the beginning, that would be very interesting. I would be interested also in Jim's background like where did he learn how to fight? If I remember I think there was one episode dealing with a instructor from the academy where he learned some fighting techniques and also booby traps training. And the episode with the samurai instructor. I know there has to be more and that's what I would have really like them to explore. Jim also seems to have obtained a science background, I would like to know more about that too. Since he had an archeology professor and Jim looks to have high intelligence with his strategy and tactical planning abilities. And it wouldn't hurt if they went even further back when they were a lot younger or in their youth. Those are ideas worth exploring. I'm sure a 3 part episode or an arc ( or more since I am a greedy gut ;D) dealing with Jim and Artie's academy days. Now that would be very very awesome, cool, fantastic or whatever it is you would like to exclaim. ;D Oh! One more thing, it really would have been nice if they had some better written ideas about Jim and Artie's life after their Secret Service career. I don't know about you but I really think Jim and Artie would have ended up better, and I mean way better than how they were portrayed in those two tv movies. I can't see Jim and Artie having created their lives in the manner written as to how they ended up first with a falling out between themselves, Jim in Mexico with many wives?!! And Artie with a two bit theater company?!! They are way better than that!!! Why weren't they recruited as teachers at the academy? Or have gone on to be entrepreneurs as partners in some corporation? I would have really like to have seen them do justice to our two heroes after retiring from the Secret Service. They could have done so much better. But I think the writers were trying to be funny. Well to me it wasn't that funny. They were still young enough to have been a great contribution to the US government or even to an old community or a new homesteading community. Both Artie and Jim could have settled down, married, have children, and also new careers. And with a career that brings adventure along with undercover spy work for the US government. You know the cool stuff. Retired but not really retired. There was still a lot of great years left in them to have excellent adventures.
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Post by LuckyLadybug on May 19, 2013 3:33:30 GMT -8
I don't even accept the TV movies as canon because I'm so displeased with how things were handled. It's just too depressing and out-of-character for me to picture Jim and Arte having some big falling out after everything they've been through together.
... And Jim has many wives? Seriously? Those TV movies are on crack.
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Dieter
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Post by Dieter on May 19, 2013 12:19:01 GMT -8
Yeah WWW Revisited started off with Jim having like 7 or 8 Mexican wives!! That was pretty weird already to start the show off with!! I haven't seen it for a while now, and don't really care to either. More Wild Wild West was even worse. Jim had a mustache for some strange reason in that one. What were they thinking??
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rielle
Book Worm
yeah, THAT smile.
Posts: 497
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Post by rielle on May 19, 2013 14:36:50 GMT -8
I haven't seen the 'movies' made after the series ended in a long while and still remember a lot more I disliked than liked about them...
Clearly Ross and Robert were simply putting up with idiotic plots and bad writing for the fun of working together. Clearly, the rest of the people involved had little or no idea what the series was really like.
Artie's so angry he won't speak to Jim, but he doesn't remember why? Artie? Artie's being chased by some idiotic fawning actress?
Jim's on the run from his multiple wives or from their brothers or both? Jim? Jim's apparently living like a paisano [wrong language but you get the idea] somewhere in Mexico?
one word:
ARRRRRGGGGGHHHH!
And frankly I don't know who was worse, Paul Wiliams or Jonathan Winters as the so-called villains!
Only the producer who shall not be named could have done it worse, and he did.
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Post by amw on May 19, 2013 15:04:03 GMT -8
I think my point being, bringing up those two tv movies, I think they could have done a better job at creating a better future for Jim and Artie. After reading several fan fictions I think in my opinion on some of these authors here could have written a much better future for them than the creators and writers of the tv movies. What were they thinking?! Or what drugs were they on?!!
I guess bringing up the two tv movies was more about what I didn't want to see and then became disappointed by the silly almost slap stick results. I quite agree on everyone's opinion on those tv movies, they really could have been done better and what was the point? I wonder why Robert Conrad and Ross Martin went along with it. I just don't know the background of the behind the scenes.
I know I would have liked to have seen a better professional future, one that they would deserve, not what was shown in those tv movies.
Maybe that's a project for myself or some other fan fiction writers. ;D
To expand my thoughts: I would have liked to have seen either James West or Artemus Gordon just happen to ride by on their horse, this would be before they started working together in the Secret Service, one of them would witness the creation of the Wanderer in a train yard. Similar in thought before Kirk was captain, he saw the Enterprise during construction but he didn't know it was the Enterprise, some type of idea like that.
And let's not forget Loveless, how about more into his background, I know I would have liked to have seen flashbacks on his part into his past. Along with the idea of Jim and Loveless working together for their survival because of some bigger threat/bad guy. They tried that in The Night Loveless Died but Jim didn't know that was Loveless he was working with and protecting. I would have liked to see an episode where they fully knew each other and had to work together. ;D
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Post by ast on May 19, 2013 19:23:10 GMT -8
Not hard to find, just look on fanfiction.net, go to tv shows, then to Wild Wild West. There are over 200 stories there. Some good, some not so good, but all an effort by someone to be creative and push the story of Jim and Artemus along for real fans. In fact, here's the link, to help you get there easily, Alicia! www.fanfiction.net/tv/Wild-Wild-West/Well I'll tell ya, I can honestly say that what I've read in fanfic writing this last week was definitely stuff I wouldn't want to see. Way too much of poor Artemus getting sadistically unnecessarily beat up, my word!! Talk about people writing about torturing poor Artemus, is that what you guys want to see because that seems like all I'm reading was about poor Artemus. Most of the time Artie was also written off and out of character. I think you need to put a warning label before your stories so that your reader is prepared for the physical abuse or sexual drooling that goes on. Aemrys said: "After reading several fan fictions I think in my opinion on some of these authors here could have written a much better future for them than the creators and writers of the tv movies." I have to disagree with you Aemyrs that these fans here could write better Wild Wild West episodes or tv movies at least from the ones I've read so far and I've read a lot, I'm a speed reader.. Naw I don't think so. But that's your guys fanfic fantasies, all I'm saying is they're examples of what I would not want to see if there were more seasons. I already stated what I would like to see more of, which for some reason some of you thought I was being negative in the absolute, when it was actually positive. Think about it! Why would I tell you what I want to see more of if it was something I didn't like, and you take that as negative? I had plenty of positive things to say about the Wild Wild West and I still have more to say positive and negative. Just like you just did you spouted off your negativity and you tell me I'm not allowed to do that?!! I just have to remember to stay out of the fan fiction area. Some members here have already posted much of what I would like to see so I agree with most, almost all of what has been posted. Since you brought up the movies, I don't take it too serious, I think all they wanted to do Ross and Bob was just have some fun, maybe they weren't taking the show seriously and wanted to make it into a comedy. To me that was very obvious since it was over the top, and very slapstick comedy in some areas. And for the most part I thought it was funny! ;D Not all of it, I didn't like the Hulk men, that was stupid but if that was where they wanted the Wild Wild West to go then that's where it went. And those two actors and supporting actors, cast and crew looked like they had a blast!!! ;D Guess our fantasy infallible heros? ended up with such average futures, they aren't allowed to mess up and fall short and be at the brunt of mediocrity, well that's how they were written and Ross and Bob went along with it. Which they indorsed. I still think they did a smash up funny 2 tv movies regardless of what and how their so called fans think. Maybe a better word to have described those two tv movies as parodies. Did you think of that? Maybe that's what they wanted it to be like, a parody. One thing I found in life, some fans can be brutal, insensitive and heaven forbid if our heroes fall short of their fantasy delusions. ;D I thought heroes were real flesh and blood or based on non fiction, not fiction but real life not a fantasy tv show. The tv show is just for entertainment not thinking it's real life. I think that's what fanatics are having a hard time distinguishing between real life and fantasy. That's why I think some of you are disappointed with the tv movies, you can't separate real life from make believe. Just my point of view. I would really have been happy to see more Wild Wild West even if they had 10 more of those tv movies being the same "ridiculous" as how some of you felt, it's just entertainment that's all.
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Apple
Desk Jockey
"Speaking of love, Apple..."
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Post by Apple on May 20, 2013 16:45:43 GMT -8
I haven't seen the 'movies' made after the series ended in a long while and still remember a lot more I disliked than liked about them... Clearly Ross and Robert were simply putting up with idiotic plots and bad writing for the fun of working together. Clearly, the rest of the people involved had little or no idea what the series was really like. Artie's so angry he won't speak to Jim, but he doesn't remember why? Artie? Artie's being chased by some idiotic fawning actress? Jim's on the run from his multiple wives or from their brothers or both? Jim? Jim's apparently living like a paisano [wrong language but you get the idea] somewhere in Mexico? one word: ARRRRRGGGGGHHHH! And frankly I don't know who was worse, Paul Wiliams or Jonathan Winters as the so-called villains! Only the producer who shall not be named could have done it worse, and he did. Paul Williams...though it's close. We were watching a re-run of The Odd Couple last week and Paul Williams guest starred as himself...Oh boy! He can write a song, but I don't like his acting or singing. But that's my opinion
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Post by California gal on May 20, 2013 16:48:44 GMT -8
I know Paul Williams was very popular back when, but I never cared for him myself.
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Apple
Desk Jockey
"Speaking of love, Apple..."
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Post by Apple on May 20, 2013 16:57:15 GMT -8
That's what the odd couple ep was about, Felix's daughter Edna wanted to sleep out to get tickets. Uncle Oscar knows him and brings him home...it was amusing, her reaction. LOL!
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rielle
Book Worm
yeah, THAT smile.
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Post by rielle on May 20, 2013 18:13:02 GMT -8
You know I thought this was a pretty good thread to start with, one that was fun to think and talk about even if it had been discussed before. But twice now its degenerated into put downs of differing opinions, not to mention most if not all of our fan-fiction writers, and into superior attitudes. Now that's what I see as negativity.
Hurt-comfort is not a unique theme to W3 fan fiction, not by any stretch. And not everyone likes it, including my roommate/best friend/partner. But it is as valid an element of fan fiction and 'regular' fiction as anything else, and as classic... Yes, classic, think Juliet waking up to find Romeo dead by poison Think Rebecca nursing Ivanhoe when he is horribly wounded. Think Eowyn being nursed back to life after her duel with the Wraith-king And what about all the hurt comfort involved in the Twilight novels?
And as for the caliber of many of our fanfiction writers, I can only tell you I've been reading fanfiction for about 40 years now and our writers here are as good and in many cases far better at their craft than many of the writers being paid right now to issue monthly 'novels' for the supermarket paperbacks sections, and in bookstores and online booksellers. Getting paid for what you write is great, sure. But if that's the only reason to put pixels on a word processing software screen, its really,really empty.
PLEASE NOTE: I don't include myself in those writers here who far surpass most novels being published right now because I'm still learning.
But I will stand up over and over again, speaking LOUDLY in praise of the talent and the stories being created here and by many of the writers on ff.net. They work hard at their craft and they don't get nearly enough kudos, much less reviews, much less feedback
Oh, yeah, about that generalized 'feedback': seems to me it shows that something's being taken far too seriously. These are works of fiction and imagination. If you don't like hurt comfort stories don't read them. If you don't like Mary Sue stories where the heroines have no flaws, have all the men panting after them like ... yeah, you get it... AND save the world with the use of a single hairpin... SIGH, don't read them. If you don't like [which is another of my own admitted biases] fanfiction for a buddy show like Wild, Wild West where one of the buddies is superior in all possible ways to the other, my "favorite" example combined a MarySue character who Artie, Jim and Loveless ALL fell for, who saved Artie's life three or four times and then the whole world from a typhoid epidemic... with the author's expressed opinion that: "Everyone in the Secret Service knew that Artemus Gordon was the real agent on the team, and Jim West was helpless, hapless and hopeless without his partner." SIGH ARRRGGGHHH If as I say you don't like that kind of story... ... for the love of G-d don't read them.
But just stop there and don't tell other people not to read or not to write them. And don't, please don't put down people as stupid, sadistic, etc etc etc who disagree with you simply because they disagree and for no other reason. Its still a free country, last I heard.
And last I heard this is still one of few forums around today that are open to members opinions, instead of blindly following someone's unreasonable dictates.
I'd also mention that all the fanfiction forums... ff.net, Wonderful World of Makebelieve and dozens of other INCLUDE rating systems so that the reader can decide beforehand if a story has elements they're not interested in, or that they object to.
Lastly for now although I may seem to be repeating myself, just because one fan likes the reunion movies and another doesn't does not and cannot be taken to say that the former IS a fan of The Wild, Wild West and the latter is a 'non-fan'.
That's not plain garden variety negativity. That's just plain insulting.
Fandoms are not bowls of cottage cheese with no fruit or tomatoes or tuna included. If we all agreed about everything having to do with W3, Star Trek, Star Wars, Twilight, LOTR, GWTW, Beauty and the Beast, Supernatural, Laramie, Bonanza, Gunsmoke, Harry Potter, etc etc etc etc what would we have to talk about? And if we all agreed that everything about a particular show or movie or book was PERFECT as it stands, again, what would there be to discuss on these forums?
Fandoms are DIVERSE by their very nature, always were and always will be. If that very diversity is not palatable, not comfortable and not acceptable to a person or persons I honestly don't know what to say.
PLEASE NOTE I am not directing this at any one person on this forum. I am not telling people how to think or act or write. If this post is taken that way, I will clarify, I will even apologize. But I will not accept one point of view on 'our favorite programme' as the only one that can or should BE ACCEPTED, ever, most of all I will not accept an attitude or pov that says I am NOT a fan of The Wild, Wild West if I find fault with some of the eps, some of the writing or other elements.
That's not negativity, its just plain unrealistic.
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Apple
Desk Jockey
"Speaking of love, Apple..."
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Post by Apple on May 20, 2013 18:43:25 GMT -8
Posted by Rielle: "Fandoms are DIVERSE by their very nature, always were and always will be. If that very diversity is not palatable, not comfortable and not acceptable to a person or persons I honestly don't know what to say."
I do. Stay away from what makes you uncomfortable, or what you don't accept, unless you have a mind open to discussion and the diverse opinions of others.
Well said all through, Rielle. I was applauding as I read your post.
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Post by qohart on May 22, 2013 16:00:56 GMT -8
This is a good thread. Interesting and full of great ideas and views. And apparently, very passionate feelings on many levels. I, too, would love to have seen more background on the guys...who were their families, their interests growing up, how they met etc.
That being said...
As a 'mini list mom' while our fearless leader deals with issues, I am going to remind folks about some of the rules. Some of these are not written rules but c'mon people, we are adults.
The non-flaming rule is first. Mild or in your face, flaming is not allowed. On this board, if remarks are pointedly made so that they are hurtful, mean, unwarranted, judgmental, or designed to stir the pot in any way shape or form, that is considered flaming.
Don't be a bully. First time poster or long time poster, curb your aggressiveness, or better yet, leave it at the door.
Don't judge the other guy. None of us REALLY know each other. How can we dare to judge each other?
Constructive criticism is fine. Trashing someone's work, here or on other sites, is not constructive. It is designed to incense your 'audience'. Exhale and unpuff your feathers. Mean doesn't fly around here.
Negative comments about the show, as long as they are opinions and not stated as 'facts', is fine. Everyone has their own opinion, things they like or dislike about the show, and it doesn't have to agree with mine, mine doesn't have to agree with yours.
This is not directed at any one person. It is a reminder for us all to please treat each other with respect, watch what you say and how you say it.
I don't want to hear that what has been going on in some of these posts is not flaming or bullying or mean because it is. So stop it!
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Post by 1jameswestfan on Jun 10, 2013 6:09:17 GMT -8
Just thought of something else as I was writing a review for Night of the Turncoat. As it seems to me our two heros enjoyed frustrating Colonel Richmond more episodes where they are doing that, frustrating the colonel, would have been wonderful and added just a slight touch of humor to the episodes. Also more of James and Artie appearing mischievous, such as in Night of the Doomsday when they test the formula. The look on their faces in that scene is priceless.
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