About Nanowrimo - I wanted to share

[rielle]

this link to a funny, and in many ways accurate but not too scary article about National Novel Writing Month, which as you know starts on November 1st.

I've done it four times now and 'won' - that is completed a first draft twice. Its a great way to challenge yourself as a writer - And I know Silver knows all about it, too. She's been 'doing' Nano longer than I have and could probably have written the article linked below.

Indies, Unltd is a great site for writers and especially those who are writing or are thinking about writing and publishing independently - as in ebooks. DR, I know you know all about this, already, having published 4 of your novels, but it could be the rest of our friends here don't.

www.indiesunlimited.com/2012/10/23/laurie/#more-28335

[California gal]

I wish I had the time, not to mention stamina, to participate. I wonder how many people have gotten a start to writing--fan fiction, novels, screenplays, whatever--by joining in this exercise.

Good luck to all!

[rielle]

Oct 24, 2012 10:58:12 GMT -8 California gal said:

I wish I had the time, not to mention stamina, to participate. I wonder how many people have gotten a start to writing--fan fiction, novels, screenplays, whatever--by joining in this exercise.

Good luck to all!

I can tell you, CG, that Nano is open to all kinds of novels, including which I think Silver also mentioned, fanfiction. And in April they have a challenge called Script Frenzy - in which the idea is to write a 100 page screenplay, stage play, play for television - in 30 days. But there are templates that really help with that process, so you're not re-inventing the wheel.

I should also mention that Nano has two challenges during the summer months, both called Camp Nanowrimo, one in June, one in August. Probably that's easier for people who have a lot to get done during and before the holiday season.

stamina I think is really the main thing, because writers I believe are almost always scribbling down something, some research, some smaller scenes practically every day - so once you start on a 30 day challenge you're "just" using the habit of writing you already have - in a slightly different way.

[apollo]

Thank you rielle for sharing this information, this is something I'm interested in, I never knew about these events until now. I may try it out. ;D

[zimmerman]

great to have you here on the WWW board Apollo!!

[rielle]

so, Nanowrimo is on the tenth day today and I'm keeping a pretty good pace - aiming for 75,000 words - because the story I'm working on won't be told in 50K - in fact to me that's kinda bare bones - OTOH its the mark publishers want to see novelists hit.

Just wondering if anyone else here has picked up the Nano self-challenge, because that's the main point here - you challenge yourself to write every day and to write enough every day to meet the goal you choose.

Main advice I have, after doing this for 5 years is - do not, do not, do not let your internal editor so much as open her eyes while you're doing Nano. Leave them sound asleep so you can pound out a first draft - and keep telling yourself you are not going to rewrite until you have that draft [not polished, not beta'd, not edited at all during this month]

Its a different kind of discipline for a writer and all I can tell you is that it works for a whole LOT of people and gives them the discipline to write every day - or every other day - or whatever rhythm feels right - the rest of the year -

Well there's my shameless plug for Nano for now. Have fun!

[apollo]

This must be for people who are retired or don't have jobs!!

I'm writing and writing but I have a job, I don't even have the time writing 50K/day! Just writing doesn't feed me.

Good exercise but...some of us have to be practical.

I just realized how much I write at work too.

Oh yeah, good advice about the inner critic rielle, thanks ;D

And you're right have fun, I have my own pace I suppose, it's called slow.

[rielle]

Apollo of course you're right, Nano is very time consuming and demanding - and I'm effectively retired myself now so I have more time than other folks.

If you already have the discipline of writing even a small amount every day, you're already at a very good place as a writer. When I'm really 'dry' as a writer though I go back to reading the best authors I know, including Michener, Renault and Guy Gavriel Kay. That gets my engine going again.

just one more point and I will cease pounding the drum for Nano, I have slowwww days too and for example today I've only managed about 400 words. But formula the Nano founders came up with is very simple and very accurate: If you can write 1663 words a day for a month - you will have a 50K first draft, or revision or ... whatever you choose to work on.

[apollo]

No, I don't mind you pounding about Nanowrimo, I'm glad you created the thread because it was something I never knew about and when you posted the link, I checked it out finding several resources that I didn't have before. I think it's a great idea, a good start and an excellent tool for people who like or love to write.

Thanks for letting us know about this invaluable resource and tool, any opinions and/or advice is appreciated since you look like you have had some years experience with this.

It was very kind and thoughtful of you for sharing Rielle. Thank you.

[artiesniecewannabe]

*ahem*

[arabella]

Yay, congratulations!

Now, pardon my ignorance, but does that just mean that you got to the end alive, or did you win against other NaNoWriMo authors?

[rielle]

Nov 28, 2012 13:20:07 GMT -8 @artiesniecewannabe said:

*ahem*

yaaaaay! many congrats, Niecie!

[artiesniecewannabe]

It means I wrote a novel of at least 50,000 words during November. It came out to a little over 50,400 actually. And, yes, it's a WWW fanfic.

[rielle]

Whew! I got it! I got 75,491 words as of ... eleven or twelve minutes ago! There is still a good day's work to be done, as I still want to flesh out a couple scenes. BUT - I made the mark I chose for this year and that's a first - I haven't topped 63K before in Nanowrimo. This is a first draft, all y'all understand. Its so rough right now its wordy even for me! LOL But I AM grinnin' and I am pleased to have met my own challenge!

Its an original story, a fantasy - but set in our own time, which for one thing, made the dialogue easier... no Victoriana ... which I love but it isn't the way we all talk... mostly... LOL

Oh and yes, it DOES have a beginning a middle and an ending! Now, I know you're impressed, bc I have a LOT of trouble ending a story!

I would share my winning badge here but I don't seem to be able to get some sites to cooperate lately and one of them is Photobucket. Its okay. I'm just not a techie by any stretch! Oh, winners can also download a certificate... but as Niecie already pointed out the winning is all about doing what you set out to do... you are your only competitor in Nano.

[artiesniecewannabe]

Good job, rielle!

[arabella]

Holy cow! 75,000 words! My mind boggles. Congratulations, Rielle!

[Nydiva]

Congrats to both; what a impressive feat! I bow to the wordsmiths!

[rielle]

three more points I wanted to add about Nano and then I'll go on to harangue you folks about something else entirely ... LOL

1) the organization that runs Nanowrimo is called the Office of Lights and Letters and its major work is to encourage young people, grade school, high school and college to read and to write and to love books and writing. So imo they are a wonderful group to support. They run 3 30-day writing projects during the year, 1 in June and one in August under the title 'Camp Nanowrimo' - with the same idea as the one just finished this November... And in April they run something called 'Script Frenzy' - with the idea being to write a play, a graphic novel, or a screenplay during the month of April - aiming for 100 pages. So there are four established self-competitions yearly.

2) within Nanowrimo [Google it and you will find the official site if you haven't already] there are also what are affectionally termed Nano-rebels, people who work on shorter projects, or who work on works already in progress... or who write non fiction or who do anything other than writing the first draft of a novel from scratch during Nano... so there certainly is as much leeway as anyone could ask for.

3) imo its important to note that people literally from all walks... take part in Nano every year and some have been doing it at least once a year [see #1 above] for ten years or so because they love the challenge they give themselves and the discipline they learn from it - to write at least something every day - to keep your writing muscles healthy ---

So, while its far easier for me as a retired person or for someone who's not juggling several jobs with school, family, etc etc etc Nano is something a lot of people find such a good, encouraging, enlivening experience that they make the time for it... roughly speaking it boils down to a couple hours a day... writing, for a 50k first draft. A lot of them also make a lot of friends who go to 'write-ins' at various libraries, coffee-houses and bookstores - for an hour or two to sit at the laptops provided and build their stories.

So yes, I'm still gonna encourage my friends here who do such great story telling to take on this self-competition at some point. Because it is so worth it. I think all of you will agree that there's no feeling like accomplishing whatever goal you set for yourself, and when its something creative... wow!

[nemo]

I understand and appreciate your opinion in your recent post Rielle. You contributed an interesting point of view from which I was forced to perform in a few other venues or areas of activity from which the experiences that I have obtained and lessons learned have made me form a different opinion.

Also first off I have nothing against you Rielle personally, this is only my opinion and I am sharing my point of view.


Yes I agree in part with encouraging people of all ages and educational levels to get involved in writing but where I disagree is with the method of blatantly pumping out quantity over quality in such a long period of time. Performing and achieving quantity over a short period of time like e.g. brain storming, is an excellent exercise in any area of endeavor but to continue on for a month tends to encourage bad habits, sloppiness and mediocrity.

My philosophy that I have learned through experiences in many areas of expression has developed because I come to find what works the best for me and has been proven through successful high points, grades, competitions, meaningful awards, and monetary compensations. Though I have been in certain arenas where they just want you to get the job done and don’t care too much about quality, that does happen in the real world, I’ll grant you that but that isn’t for me nor is it for my students.

I believe in rewarding one’s self with a quality product and/or expressionistic work. Anyone can sit down and throw out words, paintings, drawings or cook up low quality food, that’s the easy part if you have the time and you don’t work, have family, or are retired. A month to spend on just throwing out words with no quality is for me a waste my time.

In my opinion the time also has to be quality and meaningful e.g. you do the same exercise as you do in Nano but you limit it to a few days or hours, not a month! Not many people can do that and personal if you can do that then you must not have a life other than your internal world of writing. But that’s others, that’s great, not the point here. All I’m saying is I have a different philosophy when it comes to creativity and I personally have had the experience to back me up on it along with hundreds of other people.

When I first heard about this Nano idea was when I joined here and I had to really look into this to see if this was true or not, then on top of that they give out awards for self- competitions?! I’m confused!! Anyone can self -challenge on their own at home you don’t need someone on the outside telling you and then rewarding you saying that you’re a “Winner” for what? That’s silly! Even my own kids would be wondering about that concept.

How about I put it this way. I want to run ten miles and I want to do it in 2 days, so I drop everything in my life, run the ten miles whichever way I can with no thought into it, I achieve it then I get an award for it? Just because I did it? No judges, no racing competition to see who is faster, I just put all my time and energy into running those 10 miles just to get myself running. The same principle is the same for writing. That’s a good way to get burned out, injured or put off by the whole idea.

Moderation, quality with some of the brainstorming ideas from Nano such as just quantity from time to time, makes a little more sense to me. And I don’t need any little certificate as an award. I find the satisfaction within myself when I produce a quality piece of work.

My final thought: The people of this world have changed dramatically in thought and in actions, I do not subscribe to this type of philosophy or way of doing things. All the best I hope it works out for you in whatever you strive for in life.

[apollo]

Interesting Nemo, my thoughts are similar.

Rielle did give the link to the NaNoWrMo website which had some great support and resources! ;D

I found that to be helpful for me but you're right just writing down words and ideas haphazardly like I did for a month didn't do me any good but lost sleep and I only achieved 40k words when put together....well what can I say! Crazy!! ;D Something that won't see the light of day for anyone to see! OMG! lol ;D

But it was an interesting exercise maybe I'll try just writing down words and brain storming in shorter periods like you suggested Nemo but I won't be doing that anytime soon. You're right I'm a bit burned out right now and I got to go back to work. ;D short break

[nemo]

Dec 1, 2012 15:16:06 GMT -8 @apollo said:

Interesting Nemo, my thoughts are similar.

Rielle did give the link to the NaNoWrMo website which had some great support and resources! ;D

I found that to be helpful for me but you're right just writing down words and ideas haphazardly like I did for a month didn't do me any good but lost sleep and I only achieved 40k words when put together....well what can I say! Crazy!! ;D Something that won't see the light of day for anyone to see! OMG! lol ;D

But it was an interesting exercise maybe I'll try just writing down words and brain storming in shorter periods like you suggested Nemo but I won't be doing that anytime soon. You're right I'm a bit burned out right now and I got to go back to work. ;D short break

Yes you made a good point there Apollo.

Thank you Rielle for the link, it did have some interesting resources that looked very helpful.

[rielle]

as a matter of fact, to an extent I agree with Nemo and Apollo here. Just throwing out words is pointless, if you do it for an hour, a week, for 30 days or for ten years in a row.

However, I feel I should clarify ... what the writer gets from participation in Nano or the other yearly events is absolutely nothing more than a very rough first draft of a novel, or a screenplay, or another writing project --- unless that participant chooses to spend the month on revising, polishing, tweaking and generally improving a draft already in progress.

What I came up with in this year's Nano is not something I'd offer any one else to read as it stands. Its rough, its crowded, its twice as verbose as my finished stories and that's saying A LOT, LOL. But its a strong foundation from which to take this story further. And I will be working on it through the year [and its entirely possible, the year after that] hoping to end up with a manuscript I will be asking a lot of people to help me polish, so that it can be submitted or formatted for potential publication.

And that latter of course is my other goal as a writer. I love writing fanfiction, of course. I will always do that. And I will always work on original novels that may possibly see publication. I've been doing both these things to one extent or another since I was ten.

Lastly for now, I am reminded of what a friend of mine often says is the key difference between an amateur and a 'pro' in any profession -

An amateur does what they do for the love of it and does it very well indeed. At this point I am mostly an amateur, but I'm changing slowly.
AND
A professional keeps doing what they do when it stops being for the love of it, or when it stops being fun. - And that's also another lesson I think Nano holds out. Write a couple of hours a day for a month and you will have days you'd rather throw your computer, or at least your story file out the window. You'll have days that you touch the stars, too. But the majority of those days weeks, months ect will be the hard ones, the truly discouraging ones. If the writer doesn't keep pushing, doesn't keep writing [and reading, the other essential] themselves, no one will do it for them.

Write for publication, going through all the feedback and knowing full well it will mostly start out negative is also very daunting. But you're still only competing with yourself. You're the only one who can improve your writing, by the same method folks used to say one got to Carnegie Hall ... practice, practice, practice...

[artiesniecewannabe]

Some very good writing advice I've had is: write quickly, edit slowly. Participating in NaNoWriMo builds the habit of daily writing. And after the month is over, the writer has a manuscript to edit into a polished story.

[arabella]

My definition of the difference between an amateur and a professional writer is that amateurs write to please themselves, while professionals write to please the audience. And a typical definition is that professionals get paid for their work. Maybe my definition refers to attitude rather than money.

[apollo]

Dec 1, 2012 20:05:30 GMT -8 rielle said:

as a matter of fact, to an extent I agree with Nemo and Apollo here. Just throwing out words is pointless, if you do it for an hour, a week, for 30 days or for ten years in a row.

However, I feel I should clarify ... what the writer gets from participation in Nano or the other yearly events is absolutely nothing more than a very rough first draft of a novel, or a screenplay, or another writing project --- unless that participant chooses to spend the month on revising, polishing, tweaking and generally improving a draft already in progress.

What I came up with in this year's Nano is not something I'd offer any one else to read as it stands. Its rough, its crowded, its twice as verbose as my finished stories and that's saying A LOT, LOL. But its a strong foundation from which to take this story further. And I will be working on it through the year [and its entirely possible, the year after that] hoping to end up with a manuscript I will be asking a lot of people to help me polish, so that it can be submitted or formatted for potential publication.

And that latter of course is my other goal as a writer. I love writing fanfiction, of course. I will always do that. And I will always work on original novels that may possibly see publication. I've been doing both these things to one extent or another since I was ten.

Lastly for now, I am reminded of what a friend of mine often says is the key difference between an amateur and a 'pro' in any profession -

An amateur does what they do for the love of it and does it very well indeed. At this point I am mostly an amateur, but I'm changing slowly.
AND
A professional keeps doing what they do when it stops being for the love of it, or when it stops being fun. - And that's also another lesson I think Nano holds out. Write a couple of hours a day for a month and you will have days you'd rather throw your computer, or at least your story file out the window. You'll have days that you touch the stars, too. But the majority of those days weeks, months ect will be the hard ones, the truly discouraging ones. If the writer doesn't keep pushing, doesn't keep writing [and reading, the other essential] themselves, no one will do it for them.

Write for publication, going through all the feedback and knowing full well it will mostly start out negative is also very daunting. But you're still only competing with yourself. You're the only one who can improve your writing, by the same method folks used to say one got to Carnegie Hall ... practice, practice, practice...

Good clarification Rielle, all I got was a very rough rough draft of ideas.

I think maybe the point was that one can do their own writing however they want without needing a carrot like an award that really is meaningless.

One writes because they love to write, as you say not for any award just because you spit out 50,000 words in one month.

I think I know what Nemo's point was. Ok so you achieved 50K words in a month. So! What's important is the end product and is it quality? I achieved 40k words, I don't feel I need an award then showing it, the reward for me was to just do it and I didn't feel I needed anyone to tell me or push me to do it.

That's why I agreed with Nemo's point.

Like I said before it was a good exercise to a point but where I really benefited from was your link to the website with so many resources. There was where I learned the most. ;D And thank you again btw.

I have no problem with your clarified Rielle I agree but one thing I hope when you said professional vs. amateur not all professionals do it just for the money for them to get where they are takes love of the sport or activity they are in the money and/or fame is secondary. So if I understand you right you are not talking absolutes here when you talk of professionals only doing it for the money, fame, glory ect.

There are pros and amateurs that are out there doing what they do because they have to and the love of what they do has diminished and/or is gone from what it once was. I know I've been in both positions amateur and professional, I've been there done that.

Interesting discussion Rielle thank you for your clarification, makes sense. Purposeful practice makes perfect. ;D That's if you have the time, energy, and one is not too caught up in your everyday real life responsibilities like me.

It would be nice to be retired. One of these days! ;D
Then I can be as good of writer as you.

[apollo]

Dec 1, 2012 21:08:16 GMT -8 @artiesniecewannabe said:

Some very good writing advice I've had is: write quickly, edit slowly. Participating in NaNoWriMo builds the habit of daily writing. And after the month is over, the writer has a manuscript to edit into a polished story.

Heaven have mercy on your beta readers!

I don't agree with your idea of writing quickly for a whole month it creates bad habits and sloppiness. Please don't ask me to beta read for you Niecie since you have a diabolically different attitude towards writing than me. ;D Thank you

[artiesniecewannabe]

No fear; no beta reader is going to see what I have right now. Did you really think by 'edit slowly' that I meant someone else would get to see this?? I will edit it first, long before any beta reader sees it!

Here is the point of NaNoWriMo. Many many writers -- or, if you prefer, writer wannabes -- are stymied before they can even finish their first chapter because their Internal Editors balk at every point, whether by the choice of a word, or the phrasing of a sentence, or what have you. The point of NaNo is to turn off the Internal Editor in order to get the story poured out onto paper or screen. And then edit afterwards. The editing is very very important, but if one does not actually write the story, there will be nothing to edit. This way, one has built the habit of daily writing, AND one has a story to edit.

But to each his own. If NaNo isn't your cup of tea, so be it. If it is the cup of tea for others, so be that as well.

[apollo]

Dec 2, 2012 19:14:12 GMT -8 @artiesniecewannabe said:

No fear; no beta reader is going to see what I have right now. Did you really think by 'edit slowly' that I meant someone else would get to see this?? I will edit it first, long before any beta reader sees it!

Here is the point of NaNoWriMo. Many many writers -- or, if you prefer, writer wannabes -- are stymied before they can even finish their first chapter because their Internal Editors balk at every point, whether by the choice of a word, or the phrasing of a sentence, or what have you. The point of NaNo is to turn off the Internal Editor in order to get the story poured out onto paper or screen. And then edit afterwards. The editing is very very important, but if one does not actually write the story, there will be nothing to edit. This way, one has built the habit of daily writing, AND one has a story to edit.

But to each his own. If NaNo isn't your cup of tea, so be it. If it is the cup of tea for others, so be that as well.

That's cool, I already understand that, I think Rielle said that earlier in a earlier post and me and my internal editor get along just fine. ;D

I think you totally missed the point that Nemo, Rielle, and I were bringing forward. That's ok one of these days you will understand. ;D

[artiesniecewannabe]

I think that we will simply have to agree to disagree regarding NaNoWriMo.

[California gal]

All writers, professional or amateur, have their own styles and methods of writing. The point is to have a polished story that you are proud of, and which others might enjoy.

i read recently that one of the very popular mystery writers--I think it was James Patterson--said that he is able to put out so many books because he just writes the outline and gives it to a staff writer to flesh out. I don't recall whether he said he then polishes it himself or lets an editor do it. Sounds to me like it's not so much a joy to him anymore! But then again, he is raking in the $$.

I kind of use both styles as far as writing the draft and when I edit. Sometimes when I'm writing I go back immediately and make changes to fit what I've written. In fact, I think I do that more often than not. But one I'm working on currently I'm just writing and letting the chips--or plot points--fall where they may. When I'm finished, I'll go back and read it one or two times to clear up discrepancies before asking beta readers to make sure I caught them all. It all kind of pertains to where my mind is going at the moment. Or isn't going.